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Thread: Destroyers - Fletcher Class

  1. #3376
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Broke the ice ....

    Boilermaker 9

    Welcome to the Fletcher thread and thank you for weighing in with your recital.
    I appreciate the wealth of experience and memories you can afford this group.

    Three (3) illustrations from DD-537 are attached for your review.
    After completing the trifecta ( Kidd, Sullivans & Cassin Young ) my Mk ** Eyeball has improved at identifying artifacts on a Fletcher-DD.

    The first photo ( Aux Steam Line operating Wheel painted YELLOW) may be the item you referenced which supplies Hotel Service to a DD ?
    Note that I captured a great shot of my shoes but failed to note the location on the ship. I seem to recall being on the starboard side but no guarantees...
    Perhaps you could confirm.

    Another mystery while on the USS Kidd where control wheels mounted to the exterior bulkhead.
    While touring the Sullivans & Cassin Young I noted the same controls.
    These wheels are mounted above the forward fire room and illustrated in the final photo ( Forward of the Fwd Stack & Intake)
    I assume these were external controls separate from the steam being supplied from Shore?

    Any details that can be added is appreciated.






    Quote Originally Posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
    Good afternoon Gentlemen I have been following this board for quite time and enjoy it immensely! I was a boilermaker in the Navy during the 60's to mid 70's I cut my teeth on the 445, 692 and 710 boilers, they were all the same.

    The "06" as the good "Captain" was fondly referred to, was a joy to read. He was accurate and easy to understand. I wish my Navy instructors were the same! I am very sorry for his passing.

    Shore steam was generally provided on the pier at stateside side bases and repair activities, and since in the Fletchers, as well as in most combatants of the era were all equipted with steam hot water heaters, heat exchangers, laundry equipment and some galley equipment, such coppers or steam kettles, serving lines, and steam cookers, to name a few. All of this called "Hotel Services". The "aux services" were Lube Oil and Fuel Oil heaters for the aux machinery such as the main engines, all the pumps and the fuel-heaters which needed to be kept warm. Note: Navy Special Fuel Oil had to be heated to about 110 degf to pump and 130 degf or so to burn. Another decision for another time. Bottom line steam was a necessity not a luxury. So provisions for it were provided.

    This pier service was generally provided stateside on most bases and shipyards. In theater all repair ships and floating DD had shore steam capability although pier side in those areas it was difficult to get shore steam, so the ships stayed lit off, steaming auxiliary on one boiler and one generator. They didn't use the evaporator in port, except for make up feed. Too much contamination in harbor water for evaporators to remove for potable water. The evaporator was designed to remove salt water contaminants generally found in the ocean, not a harbor. If ships were "nested" from the pier with no shore steam, then one ship in the nest would stay lit off and service the remaining ships in the nest. If the ships were there a long time they would alternate providing steam. When they tied to a AD or AR that ship would supply the shore steam. They would also stay lit off stateside if no steam was available, which happened at times.

    Electricity was an unintended consequence of staying lit off, as one needed to keep a generator on line to complete the steam cycle. This is because the dc heater, booster pump, the feed pump, and hotel services did not generate enough load to keep the boiler constantly firing. With a generator on then the load remained constant. Again one must remember that back in WW2 most combatants and government built ships had all steam auxiliaries. Steam was a definite need, even in the pacific. This is the way it was into the 70's. The newer ships today have electric auxiliaries. The Diesel driven DE's of the period all had Aux boilers (Donkey Boilers) similar to what you currently find in schools and small industry, are now called "package boilers", and those provided hotel services and aux services on those ships.

    Each fwd fire room on a 445 had a shore steam deck riser on the port and stbd side, fwd of frame 92.5, #1 fire room aft bhd (bulkhead). For that matter they were installed on every steam driven ship. Now, gentlemen all of the above is based on my limited experience, knowledge and historical info I have gathered over the years. So if I am incorrect please let me know and or please feel free to add or subtract as necessary. Will not hurt my feelings, at 71 you are never to young to learn, again this is one great board!

    I will send image of ref drawings in follow on next post. Thanks again!
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    Last edited by blidgepump; 31 Dec 17, at 22:11.

  2. #3377
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    Boilermaker 9,

    Indeed, welcome to the WAB! At 71 you & I must have served about the same time as I'm the same age - I started my sea duty aboard DD-566 in San Diego in 06/66 after boot camp leave. I have several friends who have been either BTs, MMs, or the like and have always learned something from them re. the engineering plants on the ships I served in. As I migrated from the deck force to the Personnel Office (there weren't a lot of choices back then on the typ. FLETCHER) I didn't have too many opportunities to go into the engineering spaces to see what was what!

    Anyhow, glad you on board and do provide your expertise from time to time.

  3. #3378
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Bioilermaker...

    I failed to mention earlier, but should you have any photos from your days of serving on the DD's they would be most welcomed.

  4. #3379
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    Team effort...

    This artwork was found behind a picture bought at a garage sale. The artist is K.B. Ransley - Chicago circa 1943. I was asked by a thread follower to share this through the Fletcher thread in hopes of finding this sailor's family. So bread is cast upon the waters.... If you have need of contact please PM me. Thank you.
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  5. #3380
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    K. B. Ransley follow up ...

    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    This artwork was found behind a picture bought at a garage sale. The artist is K.B. Ransley - Chicago circa 1943. I was asked by a thread follower to share this through the Fletcher thread in hopes of finding this sailor's family. So bread is cast upon the waters.... If you have need of contact please PM me. Thank you.
    While being diverted to an "alternate airport" to wait out a winter storm, the opportunity for some quality laptop time permitted research into K.B. Ransley.

    "Kenneth Brown Ransley (March 21, 1893-June 12, 1989) was a female portrait artist who painted thousands of paintings in her lifetime. During World War II, she donated her talents to the war effort, visiting the Service Men's Center in Chicago twice a week to sketch portraits of enlisted men. She executed 1,400 or these portraits and gave them to either the sitter or his family.: Citation https://www.ancestry.com/boards/surn...y/65.2/mb.ashx

    Interesting enough was the practice of the masculine naming of a girl ( as was common in the late 1800's ) but the volunteering of an artist talents during WWII adds to story. An assumption can be made that the Chicago Navy Pier was a happening place with the USN operating the Great Lakes Navy base during the war.

    While the Great Lakes paddlewheel carriers of the 9th Naval District Carrier Qualification Training Unit (CQTU) tied up to the Navy Pier on the Chicago waterfront in the 1940s; both USS Wolverine and USS Sable were attached to Naval Air Station Glenview, Illinois. With sailors and officers crowding along the Michigan shorefront the artist contribution to the war morale effort is noted.

    Form the latest post on the internet the "mystery sailor's portrait has yet to find its home.
    Last edited by blidgepump; 15 Jan 18, at 05:07.

  6. #3381
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    Sorry for the delay of about a month! Hope all had a great holiday season! The delay, well let’s just say I was electronically challenged, it took me this long to get it right! Any way I shall reassemble the info and present it I do not have many photos of these ships but do have a large number of photos of ships of the 70’s. I will not be able to post photos till I have 25 replies under my belt, think I have 23 to go. Any way thank you for your patience.

  7. #3382
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    Good afternoon.
    Glad to be back. Please forgive the grammar and spelling. In answer to Bilgepump all those bulkhead valve wheels in the photos are emergency stop remote operators. As the name implies they are only used in an emergency and during drills. These wheels are connected by a 1.5 to 2" steel cable incased in stainless steel sheathing to their respective valve by a cap with a key, very similar to a fire hose connection in much smaller scale. Took a special pin spanner to tighten these things, however most of us used a hammer. These remote operators were very hard to operate and at times, took 2 men and a "crow foot" to turn. This style remote was used until I retired in 1985. you could find these valve operators on every ship very close to the fire room escape hatch, no mater where the hatch was located. I believe technology has improved today.
    When the order was given to abandon the fire room there was no time to run around and shut the plant down. The crew would leave the space and gather around these valve wheels and shut the plant down. Turbo steam emergency stop was generally not needed as it came off the main steam and the valves themselves were located in the engine room, however some ships did have them in the fireroom. The Generators were the only aux machinery that required superheated steam. The main and aux had the remote connectors screwed on to the valve wheel with a special rig that looked some what like a horse harness. Many crews would disconnect them so they could light off or secure in normal fashion. When the remote operators were connected it took a lot of effort and a "crow foot" to open or close these valves. incidentally the main steam on these ships has a scissors type valve operating apparatus with a large valve wheel for leverage.
    Duing the war most pipe lines were painted white and valve wheels were left the color of the metal they were cast in, although some ships did paint the spokes and hub to make them easier to identify. However they did stencil the lines with name of fluid or gas, with directional arrows for id and direction of flow.
    That valve wheel in the deck is a tripping hazard. That was frowned upon except for the anchor windlass and when they did come through the deck the rod or cable was incased in a stand pipe in a stand pipe about three ft tall.
    The shore steam connection was generally a stand pipe/riser outboard by a rail or next to station to keep the shore steam hose from becoming tripping hazard and people getting burned. Although that was not a hard fast rule as I have seen them close to the deck next to a bulkhead with the hose covered with a wood box structure. However to me that is still dangerous. In piece time shore steam risers were painted silver.
    I also think, but not sure, that there was an engraved plate that identified the valve wheel in the photo and possibly a bronze or steel valve wheel when the ship was built as opposed to painting the id on the bulkhead. Aluminum valve wheels came later if I am not mistaken.
    Yellow is fuel oil by todays standard and white is steam.
    As a side note for those who were wondering about the battle ships carriers and cruisers. All the capital ships built in the late thirties and the 40's had the same design steam plant. All of them had remote operators with one difference: The remote operators were hand actuated hydraulically operated for the most part, as the operated valve was to large to operate by hand.

  8. #3383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
    Good afternoon.
    Glad to be back. Please forgive the grammar and spelling. In answer to Bilgepump all those bulkhead valve wheels in the photos are emergency stop remote operators. As the name implies they are only used in an emergency and during drills. These wheels are connected by a 1.5 to 2" steel cable incased in stainless steel sheathing to their respective valve by a cap with a key, very similar to a fire hose connection in much smaller scale. Took a special pin spanner to tighten these things, however most of us used a hammer. These remote operators were very hard to operate and at times, took 2 men and a "crow foot" to turn. This style remote was used until I retired in 1985. you could find these valve operators on every ship very close to the fire room escape hatch, no mater where the hatch was located. I believe technology has improved today.
    When the order was given to abandon the fire room there was no time to run around and shut the plant down. The crew would leave the space and gather around these valve wheels and shut the plant down. Turbo steam emergency stop was generally not needed as it came off the main steam and the valves themselves were located in the engine room, however some ships did have them in the fireroom. The Generators were the only aux machinery that required superheated steam. The main and aux had the remote connectors screwed on to the valve wheel with a special rig that looked some what like a horse harness. Many crews would disconnect them so they could light off or secure in normal fashion. When the remote operators were connected it took a lot of effort and a "crow foot" to open or close these valves. incidentally the main steam on these ships has a scissors type valve operating apparatus with a large valve wheel for leverage.
    Duing the war most pipe lines were painted white and valve wheels were left the color of the metal they were cast in, although some ships did paint the spokes and hub to make them easier to identify. However they did stencil the lines with name of fluid or gas, with directional arrows for id and direction of flow.
    That valve wheel in the deck is a tripping hazard. That was frowned upon except for the anchor windlass and when they did come through the deck the rod or cable was incased in a stand pipe in a stand pipe about three ft tall.
    The shore steam connection was generally a stand pipe/riser outboard by a rail or next to station to keep the shore steam hose from becoming tripping hazard and people getting burned. Although that was not a hard fast rule as I have seen them close to the deck next to a bulkhead with the hose covered with a wood box structure. However to me that is still dangerous. In piece time shore steam risers were painted silver.
    I also think, but not sure, that there was an engraved plate that identified the valve wheel in the photo and possibly a bronze or steel valve wheel when the ship was built as opposed to painting the id on the bulkhead. Aluminum valve wheels came later if I am not mistaken.
    Yellow is fuel oil by todays standard and white is steam.
    As a side note for those who were wondering about the battle ships carriers and cruisers. All the capital ships built in the late thirties and the 40's had the same design steam plant. All of them had remote operators with one difference: The remote operators were hand actuated hydraulically operated for the most part, as the operated valve was to large to operate by hand.
    Good afternoon it appears after more research that some ships did in-fact have deck hand wheels and I did find one photo caption that said shore steam stud side so I was not whole correct in that aspect. However the photo I found had the valve wheel close to the stud bulkhead out of the way of traffic I am not clear if the valve wheel is in the deck for shore steam then where is the hose connection?
    I believe a little bit of background is in order. as a Navy BT went through all the schools..actually passed! However was a boilermaker till much later in my career. in the 1970s was at Naval inact Ships Detatchment. where as security chief I spent a lot of time touring these ships the Kidd and the Caperton in particular. I collect books and blue prints as these ships are of a particular interest to me. the above I quoted the info I have in my collection and I was verifying it today so it appears Bilgepump is correct in identifying that deck valve wheel as aux steam! I apologize and will be more careful in the future.

  9. #3384
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    I didn't know about the limits on replies to post photos... # 24

  10. #3385
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    Now number 25..... another goal achieved???

  11. #3386
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    Open discussion.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
    Good afternoon it appears after more research that some ships did in-fact have deck hand wheels and I did find one photo caption that said shore steam stud side so I was not whole correct in that aspect. However the photo I found had the valve wheel close to the stud bulkhead out of the way of traffic I am not clear if the valve wheel is in the deck for shore steam then where is the hose connection?
    I believe a little bit of background is in order. as a Navy BT went through all the schools..actually passed! However was a boilermaker till much later in my career. in the 1970s was at Naval inact Ships Detatchment. where as security chief I spent a lot of time touring these ships the Kidd and the Caperton in particular. I collect books and blue prints as these ships are of a particular interest to me. the above I quoted the info I have in my collection and I was verifying it today so it appears Bilgepump is correct in identifying that deck valve wheel as aux steam! I apologize and will be more careful in the future.

    BM9,
    I'm still on the road but wished to encourage the continued exchanged and look forward to more information from you....

  12. #3387
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    Reading material ....

    A quick read for those Fletcher DD fans is Dave McComb's book addressing WWII destroyers 1942-45.
    Besides the war time crisis for more DD's in the Pacific it offers a review of development of the DD.
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  13. #3388
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    BP,

    Thanks for the notice - I wasn't aware of that book. Just placed an EBay order for it!!!

    Hank

  14. #3389
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    Two additional reads are Robert Sumrall's "Sumner Gearing class destroyers" and Norman Friedman's "US Destroyer an illustrated Design History". Both are somewhat technical in nature but a very interesting read. Both available on Amazon and Ebay. Friedmans book is on both I believe the Amazon updated book contains the Arleigh Burke class. They are a bit pricy.

  15. #3390
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    It appears the insulation is high and tight on the CV vs the DD.
    Do not touch or disturb as the say'in goes....
    When these ships were built nearly all insulation was of asbestos. which to me that image shows. I believe this is why some museums have difficulty opening up spaces.....the lagging and insulation must be removed or incapsulated to protect the public. I know the Navy started an asbestos removal program however it became cost prohibitive so they began incapsulating it.

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