S-2, et al,
First, let me make it clear, that I am not a supporter of terrorist activity, nor am I anti-Israeli. But nether set of hands are clean in this regard.
(COMMENT)
Well, the outcome is not written on this. The "viable" part is still in question. The democracy part for the Israeli and the Palestinian is equal. We may not like the outcome, but we promoted the idea of democratic elections and that is what we got.
(COMMENT)
I tried not to get into big lists, simply because I find it (generally) much like the "he says - she says" type argument; and the fact that they are quite long. But don't think that the Israeli targeted "only" (or even mostly) military significant objectives. And don't forget the definition of terrorism.
The general, Open Source List of "Irgun" (only) Attacks against "civilian" targets reads like this. It can be found at: List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is by no means, all inclusive, but it gets to the point that the actions between the two insurgent activities are not all that dissimilar. They were "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents."
Again, I don't support HAMAS or any of the terrorist actions by its sister elements. And I have learned from the examples set by Israel, that we should be very careful of our alliance. The association the US has shared with the Israelis has been less productive then one might think.
I have just recently returned from my assignment in ME/GS Region. It is a mess. Having served in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Yemen, in the last decade, I am growing less and less satisfied with our political-military results.
Remember the USS Liberty.
Most Respectfully,
R
First, let me make it clear, that I am not a supporter of terrorist activity, nor am I anti-Israeli. But nether set of hands are clean in this regard.
Originally posted by S2
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Well, the outcome is not written on this. The "viable" part is still in question. The democracy part for the Israeli and the Palestinian is equal. We may not like the outcome, but we promoted the idea of democratic elections and that is what we got.
Originally posted by S2
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I tried not to get into big lists, simply because I find it (generally) much like the "he says - she says" type argument; and the fact that they are quite long. But don't think that the Israeli targeted "only" (or even mostly) military significant objectives. And don't forget the definition of terrorism.
The general, Open Source List of "Irgun" (only) Attacks against "civilian" targets reads like this. It can be found at: List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1937, March 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach.
1937, November 14 10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, ("Black Sunday")
1938, April 12 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa.
1938, April 17 1 Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa
1938, May 17 1 Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road.
1938, May 24 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa.
1938, June 23 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv.
1938, June 26 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
1938, June 27 1 Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa.
1938, June (late) Unspecified number of Arabs killed by a bomb that was thrown into a crowded Arab market place in Jerusalem.
1938, July 5 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1938, July 5 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.
1938, July 5 1 Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem.
1938, July 6 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab melon market in Haifa.
1938, July 8 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.
1938, July 16 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1938, July 25 43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1938, August 26 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
1938, February 27 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas.
1939, June 2 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.
1939, June 12 1 British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs killed, during a post office in Jerusalem was bombing
1939, June 16 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.
1939, June 19 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
1939, June 29 13 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks around Jaffa during a one-hour period.
1939, June 30 1 Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1939, June 30 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta.
1939, July 3 1 Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1939, July 4 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem.
1939, July 20 1 Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa.
1939, July 20 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1939, July 20 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot.
1939, August 27 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem.
1945, November 1 5 locomotives destroyed in Lydda station.
1946, July 22 91 people were killed at King David Hotel Bombing mostly civilians, staff of the hotel or Secretariat,
41 Palestinian Arabs, 15-28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian. [28][29][30]
1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, December 11 13 killed in attack on Tireh, near Haifa [36]
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate. [37]
1947, December 13 6 killed, 25 wounded by bombs outside Alhambra Cinema.
1947, December 13 5 killed, 47 wounded by two bombs at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 13 7 killed, 10 seriously injured in attack on Yehudieh.
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1947, December 20 6 Arabs killed, dozens wounded by bomb at Haifa refinery, precipitating the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre, which lead to the Balad al-Shaykh massacre.
1947, December 29 14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem.
1948, January 1 2 Arabs killed and 9 injured by shooting attack on cafe in Jaffa.
1948, January 5 14 Arabs killed and 19 injured by truck bomb outside the 3-storey 'Serrani', Jaffa's built Ottoman Town Hall
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.
1948, February 10 7 Arabs killed near Ras el Ain after selling cows in Tel Aviv
1948, February 18 12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla
1948, April 9-April 11 107-120 Palestinians killed and massacred (the estimate generally accepted by scholars, instead the first announced number of 254) during and after the battle at the village of Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, by 132 Irgun and 60 Lehi fighters.
1937, November 14 10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, ("Black Sunday")
1938, April 12 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa.
1938, April 17 1 Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa
1938, May 17 1 Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road.
1938, May 24 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa.
1938, June 23 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv.
1938, June 26 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
1938, June 27 1 Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa.
1938, June (late) Unspecified number of Arabs killed by a bomb that was thrown into a crowded Arab market place in Jerusalem.
1938, July 5 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1938, July 5 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.
1938, July 5 1 Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem.
1938, July 6 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab melon market in Haifa.
1938, July 8 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.
1938, July 16 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1938, July 25 43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1938, August 26 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
1938, February 27 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas.
1939, June 2 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.
1939, June 12 1 British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs killed, during a post office in Jerusalem was bombing
1939, June 16 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.
1939, June 19 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
1939, June 29 13 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks around Jaffa during a one-hour period.
1939, June 30 1 Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
1939, June 30 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta.
1939, July 3 1 Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
1939, July 4 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem.
1939, July 20 1 Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa.
1939, July 20 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv.
1939, July 20 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot.
1939, August 27 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem.
1945, November 1 5 locomotives destroyed in Lydda station.
1946, July 22 91 people were killed at King David Hotel Bombing mostly civilians, staff of the hotel or Secretariat,
41 Palestinian Arabs, 15-28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian. [28][29][30]
1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, December 11 13 killed in attack on Tireh, near Haifa [36]
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate. [37]
1947, December 13 6 killed, 25 wounded by bombs outside Alhambra Cinema.
1947, December 13 5 killed, 47 wounded by two bombs at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 13 7 killed, 10 seriously injured in attack on Yehudieh.
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1947, December 20 6 Arabs killed, dozens wounded by bomb at Haifa refinery, precipitating the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre, which lead to the Balad al-Shaykh massacre.
1947, December 29 14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem.
1948, January 1 2 Arabs killed and 9 injured by shooting attack on cafe in Jaffa.
1948, January 5 14 Arabs killed and 19 injured by truck bomb outside the 3-storey 'Serrani', Jaffa's built Ottoman Town Hall
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.
1948, February 10 7 Arabs killed near Ras el Ain after selling cows in Tel Aviv
1948, February 18 12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla
1948, April 9-April 11 107-120 Palestinians killed and massacred (the estimate generally accepted by scholars, instead the first announced number of 254) during and after the battle at the village of Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, by 132 Irgun and 60 Lehi fighters.
It is by no means, all inclusive, but it gets to the point that the actions between the two insurgent activities are not all that dissimilar. They were "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents."
Again, I don't support HAMAS or any of the terrorist actions by its sister elements. And I have learned from the examples set by Israel, that we should be very careful of our alliance. The association the US has shared with the Israelis has been less productive then one might think.
I have just recently returned from my assignment in ME/GS Region. It is a mess. Having served in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Yemen, in the last decade, I am growing less and less satisfied with our political-military results.
Remember the USS Liberty.
Most Respectfully,
R
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