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  • #31
    Bronze Projectiles

    Here are some pictures These were taken in Turret 3 aboard USS Wisconsin in summer of 1991 on the way to Norfolk from New Jersey, my notes mention 2700#, bronze 9.33 cubic feet.
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    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 03 Sep 10,, 01:38.
    sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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    • #32
      In response to how long a set of gun barrels would last I ran a list of the last time/times they were regunned with some added notes included. Gun maintenance was SOP for your gunnery departments mates and machinists. It was recorded by Gunnery Chiefs and other officials within the department who oversaw maintenance and no doubt inspected when in for refit or temporary fixes could/would be made in port or in theatre. It might help to keep in mind what bombardment/fleet assignments some of these ships had in order to compare the numbers posted with their time at sea.

      I would also like to add I had some help along the way with numbers checking on the Iowa class by Rusty.

      Barrel Ware : Last regunning’s of USN Battleships in service during and after Pearl Harbor attack.

      BB-31 Utah- Converted and designated AG-16 Target ship in April 1932, (Sunk at Pearl Harbor not recovered) (Monument)
      BB-32 Wyoming- Designated (AG-17) July 1931 Gunnery Training ship primarily on East Coast but also Midshipmen Cruises abroad.
      BB-33 Arkansas - Refit &Inspection New York Navy Yard May 1943
      BB-34 New York – Pearl Harbor Navy Yard – 11 June 1944
      BB-35 Texas – Refit 1945 No info available but prepared for Normandy landings as shore bombardment ship.
      BB-36 Nevada – Late (Sept-Dec 1944) Brooklyn Navy Yard.
      BB-37 Oklahoma – (Never returned from Pearl Harbor) Raised but lost in tow to breakers.
      BB-38 Pennsylvania – April 1945 Hunters Point Navy Yard.
      BB-39 Arizona – (Sunk at Pearl Harbor not recovered) (Monument)
      BB-40 New Mexico – 1944 Puget Sound Navy Yard.
      BB-41 Mississippi – May 1944 Puget Sound NY.
      BB-42 Idaho – 1942 Puget Sound Navy Yard
      BB-43 Tennessee – May 1943 Puget Sound NY.
      BB-44 California – July 1942 Removed to rite ship, reinstalled at Pearl Harbor Navy Yard in drydock.

      BB-45 Colorado – The hardest to find due to how many times the “Electric ship” was in and out of refit. Best figure IMO, Puget Sound Navy Yard August-October 1944 would be right after Saipan and Tinian were bombarded. She took a lot of damage and was in the yard for a few months but kept in reserve after the war until 1959 then scrapped.

      BB-46 Maryland – April 1944 Puget Sound Navy Yard.
      BB-47 Washington – (Sunk as target) after launch.
      BB-48 West Virginia – 1944 Puget Sound Navy Yard

      BB-49 South Dakota through BB-54 Massachusetts scrapped along with Washington Treaty.

      BB-55 North Carolina - No regunning, Refit & Inspection - Sept 1944 Puget Sound Navy Yard.
      BB-56 Washington – No regunning, Refit &Inspection - May 1945 Puget Sound Navy Yard.

      BB-57 South Dakota – Refit & inspection June 1946 Philadelphia Navy Yard.
      BB-58 Indiana – refit October. 1944 Puget Sound Navy Yard.
      BB-59 Massachusetts – 1944 Mare Island Navy Yard.
      BB-60 Alabama – March 1945 Puget Sound Navy Yard.

      BB-61- Iowa – Dec. 1955 Norfolk Navy Yard.

      BB-62 – New Jersey – 1957 New York Navy Yard/ Bayonne NJ before mothballing. 1984 (actually later according to a reliable source here on WAB) replacement gun in turret two. Long Beach California.

      BB-63 – Missouri –1954 Bethesda Ma. Washington Navy Yard via Norfolk Navy Yard.

      BB-64 – Wisconsin – Not regunned. Refitted and inspected but barrels maintained (see note below concerning shaving the liners).

      *A few points to be made.

      It would not be outside the ordinary for any of these ships to have shaven off the liner end if it elongated or warped there are pics of it on the net where it has been performed. There is also footage of a torch being used to shave the liner. This would permit a temporary fix until the ship would be in port for a major refit and inspection.

      1951-1952 USS Wisconsin BB-64 having one of her liners shaved via portable mill or "cutlass" taken by a crewmember.

      http://www.usswisconsin.org/Pictures...Turret%201.jpg

      The guns aboard these ships would be cleaned and oiled with a very light oil for inspection after most major shoots wether it be target or actual bombardment.

      Cleaning the guns via the "pig" a barrel shaped brush that was pulled through the barrel from one end to the other. Sometimes using the forward anchor windlass capstan to do the tough pulls to start the process from the barrel end and possibly the projectile rammer chain from the breech end. In either case it was manpower intesive and a dirty job but none the less a required job.

      North Carolina's guns being cleaned July 1945.

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015549.jpg


      In some of these instances, former battleship Kearsarge (BB-5) became (US Crane Ship # 1 or AB-1) was used for lifting these barrels from 14” to 16” into place. Kearsarge had a 250 ton (but was tested at 350 tons) revolving crane mounted on a former battleship hull refitted for this in Philadelphia Navy Yard. She helped regun Pennsylvania, Idaho, Alabama, among other ships. What better to have then a mobile coast to coast via Panama Canal heavy lift crane on a sailable heavy duty hull.

      Kearsarge regunning Idaho BB-42 at Puget Sound Naval Yard.

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014245.jpg

      Kearsarge assembling Alabama’s (BB-60) guns during fit out after launch in Norfolk VA.

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016044.jpg

      Kearsarge regunning Pennsylvania during refit at Hunters Point Navy Yard.

      http://navsource.org/archives/01/005/010507p.jpg

      Former USS Kearsarge as US Crane Ship #1 (AB-1) with both her former and new designation on the stern.

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/010550.jpg

      Ok all, out for some R&R for a few days. Enjoy the silence for awhile.:gunut:
      Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Sep 10,, 00:10.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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      • #33
        That goes to the question that how good are the barrel liners are on the remaining Iowas.

        I know the polyurathane jackets on the powder bags did a lot in reducing wear, but after so many rounds fired wear and tear adds up. I wonder how much longer the Iowas could have maintained safety and performance without replacing the liners. I wonder even if the equipment is still around to even attempt a job like that.

        I know, a mute point they will never be recalled to active service.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by shadow01 View Post
          That goes to the question that how good are the barrel liners are on the remaining Iowas.

          I know the polyurathane jackets on the powder bags did a lot in reducing wear, but after so many rounds fired wear and tear adds up. I wonder how much longer the Iowas could have maintained safety and performance without replacing the liners. I wonder even if the equipment is still around to even attempt a job like that.

          I know, a mute point they will never be recalled to active service.
          *IMO, All would have been in the yard and reinspected prior to final retirement. Since many of the barrels were destroyed for scrap during this time, if any were needed for replacement then this would have been the period to do it. There are still barrels available to the ships, even now. Some residing in Dalhgren and a few others. The majority of them have all been destroyed though outside of these few. And yes, doubtfull they would ever return to sea and if so something has seriously gone wrong with world events and diplomacy. Nobody, not even the most renowned strategic experts could have foreseen their reawakenings in 1983. It goes to prove a point though, even they cannot be correct all of the time.
          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

          Comment


          • #35
            I spoke with members of the turret crews when USS Wisconsin BB64 was on her way to be decommissioned in 1991 and they told me the 16" guns were in good condition, they all had just been measured and were in spec, they did not require replacement at that time.

            Originally posted by shadow01 View Post
            That goes to the question that how good are the barrel liners are on the remaining Iowas.

            I know the polyurathane jackets on the powder bags did a lot in reducing wear, but after so many rounds fired wear and tear adds up. I wonder how much longer the Iowas could have maintained safety and performance without replacing the liners. I wonder even if the equipment is still around to even attempt a job like that.

            I know, a mute point they will never be recalled to active service.
            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
              I spoke with members of the turret crews when USS Wisconsin BB64 was on her way to be decommissioned in 1991 and they told me the 16" guns were in good condition, they all had just been measured and were in spec, they did not require replacement at that time.
              As far as I could find Whisky was never regunned since launch, if true and they haven't then they have had one loooooong life span. The one pic I linked to was from a Whisky sailor who was given them a shave during the Korean era. If true it would be a most impressive example of barrel life utilizing WWII tech and the improvements added to powder, jacket and cooling during the 80's reactivations.
              Last edited by Dreadnought; 17 Sep 10,, 23:17.
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

              Comment


              • #37
                your right.. if one shell lands in the center of the last shell's hole, it's good enough.. (or if it's an AP shell, through the last shell's entrance hole)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                  As far as I could find Whisky was never regunned since launch, if true and they haven't then they have had one loooooong life span.

                  Not really. She didn't shoot much 16in in her lifetime. About 300 rounds in Desert Storm, Not much in WW2. She spent most of her time as AA escort for Halsey and Spruances carrier groups. Most of her Korean missions were 5".

                  I would bet around 1500 - 2000 rounds total for the ship. Thats split between 9 guns.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                    Here are some pictures These were taken in Turret 3 aboard USS Wisconsin in summer of 1991 on the way to Norfolk from New Jersey, my notes mention 2700#, bronze 9.33 cubic feet.
                    Ok I know that this is a stupid question but I have never scene Bronze Projectiles, when did they use these?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by shadow01 View Post
                      Ok I know that this is a stupid question but I have never scene Bronze Projectiles, when did they use these?
                      Several reasons:

                      *Bronze is non sparking by nature.
                      *Bronze is a soft metal so no chance of damaging the rifiling.
                      *Unmistakable appearance easy to pick out.
                      *Long life, no rust or deterioration.

                      Blunt headed, this is so when they perform extraction from the barrel end, the bronze cylindrical weight (about 300-400 lbs) that is used via pulley hits the blunted end of the practice round and dislodges it from the rifiling without damaging it.

                      This is a practice loading round, there are actually three different forms of "dummy's" aboard. But this particular one is the only (bronze) blunt headed practice round. The others look just like the real projectile in form and weight but inert and a different color for identification purposes.
                      Last edited by Dreadnought; 18 Sep 10,, 15:50.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Is it actually a Bronze round? Or just painted bronze?

                        Never touched one.

                        I have used many "Bronze" training rounds with artillery. Its just paint on them.

                        They are painted bronze as the identifier color to denote a training round used for loading/unloading practice.

                        Cannot be fired.

                        Blue bullets can be fired. Those are also training rounds. Bronze colored ones cannot.

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                        • #42
                          Dread,

                          Thanks, thats great info and really gives me a good idea on the service life of main batteries.

                          And looking at the cleaning photos....I will say cleaning my M-16 was a lot easier!
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

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                          • #43
                            Your welcome Albany.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The Firing Lock for the 16/50's Mark 14 Mod 5. These have more age then any of the barrels. They are original, manufactured by the Hudson Motor Car Group (Yes Hudson) and NAVORD in 1943 and can take both electronic and percussion ques to fire the Mk 15 (roughly 30/30 cal) primer cartridge. Once the firing keys are closed it sends 25 volts to the guns primer igniting the 660 lbs of gunpowder.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by Dreadnought; 15 Oct 10,, 01:08.
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                heres a primer
                                Attached Files
                                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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