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Israel has 'eight days' to hit Iran nuclear site: US envoy

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
    Are the clerics involved in planning of operations,in a way analogous to the Soviet Commisars?

    p.s Let me guess.There aren't too many Zoroastrians in positions of power.
    If im not mistaken then yes, during the Iran-Iraq war mullah's were present at military briefings and did have some input into military strategy, at least with the operations carried out by IRGC. But im not sure what oversight or input the mullahs had with regards to the main Iranian military (known as 'artesh') other than the mullah's never really trusted it, even during the war. Today i think it is still likely that the clerics would still be involved to some degree in military strategy in the event of any future war. Afterall, it was the clerics of Iran who prolonged the war with Iraq for 6 years longer than it should have gone on for. Despite rumblings of opposition from within the military (artesh) itself, and from the non-Islamist political factions that still existed for upto 2 years after the revolution.

    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
    Yeah,little details.Maybe our friend can tell us how are these small matters,like evasions, considered by those ordinary Iranians that know those facts.
    p.s Politely,just like an Officer and Gentleman,ehh?
    People inside Iran have limited access to information from outside the country. So you should not readily assume that large numbers of Iranians are too informed about the nuclear stand-off with the rest of the World from the whole Western perspective. Neither should anyone assume that all liberal, educated Iranians inside Iran necessarily understand English. So for a lot of them too, their access to credible information on the nuclear stand-off is limited. They know only what the propaganda of the regime is. But with that said, the Iranian nuclear-program is not a priority for ordinary people. When i have met and continue to meet with recent arrivals from Iran, we rarely, if ever, discuss this issue. Only its associated sanctions.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by 1980s View Post
      People inside Iran have limited access to information from outside the country. So you should not readily assume that large numbers of Iranians are too informed about the nuclear stand-off with the rest of the World from the whole Western perspective. Neither should anyone assume that all liberal, educated Iranians inside Iran necessarily understand English. So for a lot of them too, their access to credible information on the nuclear stand-off is limited. They know only what the propaganda of the regime is. But with that said, the Iranian nuclear-program is not a priority for ordinary people. When i have met and continue to meet with recent arrivals from Iran, we rarely, if ever, discuss this issue. Only its associated sanctions.
      Yeah,just as I thought, but I needed some confirmation.Some friends that worked as consultants in Tehran told me the same things.Btw,they were pleasantly impressed by the people and conditions for work(unlike those from the Arab states which sucked).What will happen will be a tragedy,regardless of how this crisis ends.
      Those who know don't speak
      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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      • #93
        Originally posted by astralis View Post
        connected to this...the vast majority of those supposed heroic protesters want an iranian bomb too, and are anti-semitic as well. a democratic government certainly doesn't preclude nukes or anti-israeli feeling.

        plainly put, how much more comfortable would we be with an nuclear-armed iran had the protesters overrun the IRGC? also, considering how the protesters didn't want to be associated with the US, it's hard for me to believe that US support would have toppled the IRGC-military clique. in fact, the biggest piece of propaganda the regime used was to call the protesters US or UK lackeys.
        No they don't. They have been supporting nuclear R&D b/c they are promised that nuclear R&D is for energy only. There was a reason why supreme nacho publicly announced over 3 times that "Possession and use of any type of WMD is against Islam".

        Now! Do ayatollahs lie? Of course they do, but in order to maintain popular support they must tell Iranians that there is no weaponization program on the ticket.

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        • #94
          If half the things in this article are true, then the IRGC and the Ayatollahs may be even further along to road to implosion that I previously thought. How reliable is Mr. Ledeen?

          Cracks in the Iranian Monolith
          Opposition is spreading in the streets, in prisons, and even in the military.
          By MICHAEL LEDEEN

          The Iranian regime loves to boast of its military strength, international clout and hold on domestic power. Much of this is accepted by outside experts, but in fact the regime is in trouble. Iran's leaders have lost legitimacy in the eyes of the people, are unable to manage the country's many problems, face a growing opposition, and are openly fighting with one another.

          A few weeks ago, according to official and private reports, the Iranian air force shot down three drones near the southwestern city of Bushehr, where a Russian-supplied nuclear reactor has just started up. When the Revolutionary Guards inspected the debris, they expected to find proof of high-altitude spying. Instead, the Guards had to report to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei that the air force had blasted Iran's own unmanned aircraft out of the sky.
          Apparently, according to official Iranian press accounts, the Iranian military had created a special unit to deploy the drones—some for surveillance and others, as President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad bragged on Sunday, to carry bombs—but hadn't informed the air force.

          These incidents have taken place against a general backdrop of internal conflict within the regime. In late July, Mohammad Ali Jaffari, commander of the Revolutionary Guard Corps, the regime's Praetorian Guard, admitted publicly that many top officers were supporters of the opposition Green Movement. Shortly thereafter, according to official government announcements, some 250 officers suddenly resigned. In the past weeks, several journalists from the Guards' FARS news agency have defected, some to France and others to the United States.

          Meanwhile, Iran has suffered a series of attacks against its petroleum industry. As Iranian media reported (detailed in the London Telegraph), a pipeline to Turkey was blown up last month, most likely by Kurdish oppositionists. Soon afterwards there was an explosion in a natural gas pipeline near Tabriz.

          That was followed by a spectacular blast at the Pardis petrochemical plant in Assalouye, which—being a major facility for converting natural gas to fuel for vehicles—is central to Iranian efforts to cope with the new United Nations, U.S. and European Union sanctions against refined petroleum products.

          The same plant was similarly sabotaged six months ago. No one has taken responsibility for that attack, but it suggests an activist opposition with considerable "inside" assistance.

          That opposition is fed by enduring social and economic crises. Unemployment last month reached 15% and is as high as 45% in some regions. In Tehran, health officials warned pregnant women and mothers of young children not to drink the water. Electrical failures are widespread. Taxi drivers have been striking around the country this summer, some because of the long lines at gas stations and others because of a shortage of compressed natural gas. The sanctions seem to be having an effect.

          As these pressures have mounted, Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei—against whom Iranians chant "Death to the Dictator!" at public gatherings and nightly from their rooftops—has sought to reaffirm his authority. Late last month he issued a fatwa declaring that his opinions had a status equal to those of the prophet Mohammed. The fatwa caused such consternation that it was removed from his website, then quietly returned a few days later.

          Shortly thereafter, the country celebrated the funeral of Iran's most cherished performer, the singer Mohammed Nouri. Nouri was no dissident and was often praised by clerics as a "pious" man. But Mr. Khamenei chose the moment to issue a broad fatwa against music. "It's better that our dear youth spend their valuable time in learning science and essential and useful skills and fill their time with sport and healthy recreations instead of music," he declared.

          Only "Western music" had previously been banned by Mr. Khamenei, and Iranian youth reacted with predictable hostility. In the days that followed, a Canadian-made remix of the 1979 Pink Floyd song "Another Brick in the Wall" went viral on the Internet with the new chorus, "Hey Ayatollah, leave those kids alone."

          President Ahmadinejad has also tried to buttress his popular support, first by claiming that "stupid Zionists" were trying to kill him, and then by putting out a story—which few in Iran took seriously—of an assassination attempt on his motorcade. As usual, the "report" went through various iterations: first it was a grenade, then a firecracker, then nothing at all.

          Even the government's campaign of repression seems increasingly sloppy. Recently the Judiciary Minister, in an extraordinary case of buck-passing, asked Mr. Khamenei for permission to execute 1,120 prisoners—as if the minister could imagine being prosecuted himself some day, and he wanted to be able to say it was Mr. Khamenei's fault.

          These various debacles have strengthened the Green Movement, and opposition leaders Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi continue to launch serious verbal attacks on the regime. When the head of the powerful Guardian Council recently accused the Greens of receiving money from the Saudis and the Americans, Mr. Karroubi gave him the back of his hand: "If I am a conspirator because I object [to the rigged presidential election], then you are a partner of those who stole this nation's vote and are disloyal to the nation."

          To add insult, Zahra Rahnavard, Mr. Mousavi's firebrand wife, wryly commented that the accusation would "make a cooked chicken laugh." Mr. Mousavi himself said that the Islamic Republic has become worse than the shah's regime, because "religious tyranny is the worst form of tyranny."

          Challenges to the regime now come even from prisoners. When Mr. Ahmadinejad challenged Barack Obama to a debate this month, a Green Movement website reported with grim admiration that five journalists in Tehran's infamous Evin Prison had invited Mr. Ahmadinejad to come to jail and debate them.

          Very little of this news reaches a mass Western audience, and one wonders to what extent Western governments understand what's going on. If they do, their failure to support the democratic revolutionaries is all the more lamentable.

          Mr. Ledeen, a scholar at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, is the author of "Accomplice to Evil: Iran and the War Against the West" (St. Martin's, 2009).
          Michael Ledeen: Cracks in the Iranian Monolith - WSJ.com

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          • #95
            There are 2 issues related to this thread and following comments.
            1) The nuclear issue. 2) support for terrorists group like hamass and Hezbol.
            I will try my best to shed some light on these.


            To clarify the first issue you can check the web for 1000s of pix of Iranians holding placards and slogans which they exactly say this "Nuclear ENERGY is our inalienable right". I'm sure there are few regime supporters who constantly dream about nuclear weapon equipped islamic republic, but they are not majority who believe Iran like the other 185 nations in the world can live and prosper without having nuclear weapons.

            Also if you check the pix from last year massive street protests you will notice a very dominant slogan in which Iranians repeatedly mentioned " No Gaza, No Lebanon, I sacrifice my life for Iran".

            Iranians in general do not approve aid to hamass and hezbolla, they are not happy with islamic republic's fabricated animosity with Israel. We never had a slightest dispute with Israel and never shared a inch of border in between.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              10 warheads would be more than Israel can handle. A million casualties and you would overwhelm the hospitals and people would be left on the streets to die. It is not a pleasant thought. Most certainly, any C3 would be left in shambles.

              One Soviet boomer was enough to scare Israel into accepting peace.
              I have read that article , sir and I was not impresed. It sounded to much as conspiracy theory to me.
              Pushing the service date of the mig -25 a few years ahead and assigning strategic submarines to the Black sea fleet when they weren't any , did not help either.
              Unless the Golf and Hotel class were somehow able to evade the SOSUS network unheard , the theory does not hold.
              J'ai en marre.

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