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Israel has 'eight days' to hit Iran nuclear site: US envoy

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  • #31
    It's time to stop negotiating. They will not stop making the nukes. It's time to use the only thing they understand, War.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      I would expect nothing less but the point being being hit with nukes is not something you would want to absorb. 10 nukes on countries the size of China, Russia, and the US would not mean the destruction of those countries. China and Russia alone lost more than 10 cities and over 10 million lives each during WWII and they emerged victorious.

      Israel is just too small to have that kind of redundancy. Provincial governments cannot take over for the federal government. And if Israel loses a million people, she doesn't have another million to replace them.

      The point here is that nuclear war should never be considered lightly nor half heartily. You will lose and lose big. Just because the other guy loses more does not mean you can bear your own loses lightly.

      In short, Iran could never be allowed nuclear weapons.
      This practical side of the equation is what's missing in a lot of the reporting and analysis. I agree with your implication: Israel has two choices 1) get rid of its nukes or 2) defend by all means its sole possession of them in the ME. Nothing else will do. For its nukes to be an effective deterrence to attack, it must be the only one in the region to have them. So, if it is to be number 2 then it's a foregone conclusion that Israel will act militarily the moment its clear no other means is succeeding in deterring Iran's nuke ambitions.
      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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      • #33
        i wonder what the iranian capacity is for absorbing nukes. as i understand it, iran would take at least 10:1 in any nuclear exchange with israel, which is lopsided enough where iran would die along with israel.
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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        • #34
          Given how Khameini is so desperate to make his son the next Supreme Ayatollah, regime survival seems to be his overriding goal, the Armored Dinner Jacket's antics notwithstanding.

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          • #35
            Looks like you think that Israel won't survive nuclear war, but what makes you think Israel will survive total war with Islam world after attack on Iran?

            Even if Israel will achive military victory (with a lot of american blood shed) what will be the price?

            The best solution, in my opinion, is Soviet-style collapse of Iran regime. Any military action will be ultimate stupidity.
            Winter is coming.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by NUS View Post
              Looks like you think that Israel won't survive nuclear war, but what makes you think Israel will survive total war with Islam world after attack on Iran?

              Even if Israel will achive military victory (with a lot of american blood shed) what will be the price?

              The best solution, in my opinion, is Soviet-style collapse of Iran regime. Any military action will be ultimate stupidity.
              *Dont see how you get (with alot of American bloodshed) here?

              America's not about to waste any troops lives on the POS regime.
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                Israel didn't sign the NPT. I know that is a sore point but what the ME nations who did, including Iran, have stated is that they did not need nukes for their defence ... and they're right.
                Well Israel shouldn't have gotten the nukes then. They should have known that once they got the nuke and started lording over others, the other countries are gonna feel pissed and want a come uppance and get their own nukes. The best thing for Israel is to develop its BMD program and then give up the nukes as long as US promises to include Israel under its nuclear umbrella against any Middle Eastern country. Then all the middle eastern countries would have no justification for a nuke program.

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                • #38
                  Ooops, voted the wrong choice before understanding the question (2nd time in 2 days.......). Israel needs to strike the Iranian nuke infrastructure, yes. This particular reactor, no.


                  Originally posted by NUS View Post
                  Looks like you think that Israel won't survive nuclear war, but what makes you think Israel will survive total war with Islam world after attack on Iran?
                  Why would there be 'total war with the Islam world'?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                    Well Israel shouldn't have gotten the nukes then. They should have known that once they got the nuke and started lording over others, the other countries are gonna feel pissed and want a come uppance and get their own nukes. The best thing for Israel is to develop its BMD program and then give up the nukes as long as US promises to include Israel under its nuclear umbrella against any Middle Eastern country. Then all the middle eastern countries would have no justification for a nuke program.
                    Blademaster,

                    They went nuclear because they are a country of 7.5 million on a 50 mile wide strip of land in the midst of neighbors who have tried to wipe them out repeatedly since 1948.

                    "Justification" doesn't mean much when you are dead.

                    If Israel was overrun in some military disaster, is the US going to nuke it's neighbors?

                    It seems to me that they would be crazy to give up their nukes, and they need to stop that Iranian program by any means necessary.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                      Well Israel shouldn't have gotten the nukes then. They should have known that once they got the nuke and started lording over others, the other countries are gonna feel pissed and want a come uppance and get their own nukes. The best thing for Israel is to develop its BMD program and then give up the nukes as long as US promises to include Israel under its nuclear umbrella against any Middle Eastern country. Then all the middle eastern countries would have no justification for a nuke program.
                      As with everything else, things are not that simple. Israeli nukes were trumped by Soviet nukes. A single Soviet boomer could have delivered more fire than Israel could had hoped and Soviet clients in the ME were under the Soviet nuclear umbrella. That kept the Israelis in check. Since the fall of the USSR, the ME countries no longer have Moscow's guarantee, especially when Saddam was left on his own against the US.

                      The US nuclear umbrella over Israel ... and over China for that matter ... was a matter of Cold War strategic necessity. Washington could not afford Soviet nuclear strikes to go unchallenged. Since the fall of the USSR, that umbrella is no longer available to both Israel and China.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by citanon View Post
                        Blademaster,

                        They went nuclear because they are a country of 7.5 million on a 50 mile wide strip of land in the midst of neighbors who have tried to wipe them out repeatedly since 1948.

                        "Justification" doesn't mean much when you are dead.

                        If Israel was overrun in some military disaster, is the US going to nuke it's neighbors?

                        It seems to me that they would be crazy to give up their nukes, and they need to stop that Iranian program by any means necessary.
                        At least you can always try to take the land back. Losing the war conventionally does not mean the end of the people. However getting into an nuclear exchange DOES mean the end of your people especially for Israel when a single nuclear weapon could mean the end of Israel. Not exactly a good strategic move.

                        I am so surprised that everybody is so concerned about Iran but what about Pakistan? As far as I know, Pakistan does not like Israel and regularly calls for action against Israel. Hell, 80% of Pakistan's population hates Israel and thinks that the "Jews" are behind everything along with the evil yindoos. Pakistan aids some of the most rabid Islamic groups who regularly calls for jihad against Israel. Why is Pakistan not given the same treatment as Iran accorded by Israel?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by NUS View Post
                          Looks like you think that Israel won't survive nuclear war, but what makes you think Israel will survive total war with Islam world after attack on Iran?

                          Even if Israel will achive military victory (with a lot of american blood shed) what will be the price?

                          The best solution, in my opinion, is Soviet-style collapse of Iran regime. Any military action will be ultimate stupidity.
                          Because most Middle East regimes will be glad if someone takes out Iran's (non-existent) nukes.
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by citanon View Post
                            Blademaster,

                            They went nuclear because they are a country of 7.5 million on a 50 mile wide strip of land in the midst of neighbors who have tried to wipe them out repeatedly since 1948.

                            "Justification" doesn't mean much when you are dead.

                            If Israel was overrun in some military disaster, is the US going to nuke it's neighbors?

                            It seems to me that they would be crazy to give up their nukes, and they need to stop that Iranian program by any means necessary.
                            I doubt that the mechanized genderamie of Egypt and Syria qualifies as a realistic threat.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                              I doubt that the mechanized genderamie of Egypt and Syria qualifies as a realistic threat.
                              People might have said that about Hezbollah before 2008.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by citanon View Post
                                People might have said that about Hezbollah before 2008.
                                Hezbollah generally doesn't fool around with propping up the domestic strongman at bayonet point and its C2 structure is not deliberately retarded to discourage coup attempts. And they were on the defensive for the duration of the war.

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