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China overtakes Japan as No.2 economy, US next by 2025.

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  • The typical Japanese household earned US$4,850 a month in 2013. Total income, however, was $9,250.
    How’s that again?

    Withdrawal of deposits: $3.200 (the penny, er, yen drops)

    Insurances, pensions, loans, property sales, etc makes up the rest.

    So, where does the money go?
    Food, 7%
    Home, 6%
    Transport & Communications, 5%
    Fun and games, 3%
    Taxes, 9%
    Insurance, 11%
    Savings, 40% (that one really surprised me)

    Household spending, adjusted for the number of people living in the home, is about 5% lower than in the early 1990s. That’s about 0.5% deflation every year.

    More data than is good for you: Statistics Bureau Home Page/Chapter 20 Family Income and Expenditure
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DOR View Post
      The typical Japanese household earned US$4,850 a month in 2013. Total income, however, was $9,250.
      How’s that again?

      Withdrawal of deposits: $3.200 (the penny, er, yen drops)

      Insurances, pensions, loans, property sales, etc makes up the rest.

      So, where does the money go?
      Food, 7%
      Home, 6%
      Transport & Communications, 5%
      Fun and games, 3%
      Taxes, 9%
      Insurance, 11%
      Savings, 40% (that one really surprised me)

      Household spending, adjusted for the number of people living in the home, is about 5% lower than in the early 1990s. That’s about 0.5% deflation every year.

      More data than is good for you: Statistics Bureau Home Page/Chapter 20 Family Income and Expenditure
      Come on, how long have you been in Hong Kong? You should know by now Asians save money like there's...uh....lots of tomorrows.
      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
        Come on, how long have you been in Hong Kong? You should know by now Asians save money like there's...uh....lots of tomorrows.
        Yes, DOR's surprise surprises me. My grandmother told me stories how they horde rice. Therefore, it should be no surprise that they horde money.

        Mind you, economic wise, it sucks. Horded rice will always feed. Take money out of circulation and it looses its value.
        Chimo

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          Yes, DOR's surprise surprises me. My grandmother told me stories how they horde rice. Therefore, it should be no surprise that they horde money.

          Mind you, economic wise, it sucks. Horded rice will always feed. Take money out of circulation and it looses its value.
          I put away minimum 25% of my income toward my retirement. Of course that money is not under my mattress...although I wish it were over the last 2 months.

          Anyway, I have my money in various stocks and mutual funds to ensure they don't lose value (against the market).

          I also horde guns and ammo for the impending zombie apocalypse. I plan to rob the liberals of their food stocks around my neighborhood in the event of the dead walking this earth.
          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
            I put away minimum 25% of my income toward my retirement. Of course that money is not under my mattress...although I wish it were over the last 2 months.
            Chinese families in North America learned to trust money only in the last 100 years. Our extended families in China and Taiwan trust horded rice than paper.
            Chimo

            Comment


            • Asians, well Indians I knew used to horde rice and gold. My grandpa would stock lots and lots of rice (not the plain variety but the sticky one, little amount of which could feed the whole family because of it's high starch content) in case of famine and war. He would also buy gold whenever he made extra money. These are rural people, maybe they still do, I'm not sure.

              People living in metros invest in gold, pension funds, stocks, real estate etc. Saving money alone isn't enough, as inflation would eat into the interest. I set aside some cash every month for emergency situations, and invest in real estate. Gold, I'm having second thoughts lately, and for that I need to find a wife. What most of us do is buy gold ornaments and gift it to the wifey. A great way of making an investment wife friendly.
              Last edited by Oracle; 19 Nov 14,, 12:33.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                I also horde guns and ammo for the impending zombie apocalypse. I plan to rob the liberals of their food stocks around my neighborhood in the event of the dead walking this earth.
                Be careful, some of those liberals will be shooting right back.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  Chinese families in North America learned to trust money only in the last 100 years. Our extended families in China and Taiwan trust horded rice than paper.
                  Really? I don't remember anyone hording rice when I grew up in Taiwan. But then again, we were in the urban areas. Much like what Oracle said, I remember people hording gold. I've heard stories and watched a lot of the TV dramas with background in the early 20th century China of people hording gold and used bars of gold as currency.

                  American "preppers" horde a lot of emergency food, water, and ammo for the impending zombie apocalypse.

                  Some Americans don't believe in paper currency. I remember at a gun shop once, buying a gun (Webley Mk IV) from a fellow calgunner. I started talking to some other people in the shop. There was this older gentleman there, also buying a gun from the same guy I bought the gun from. He brought a bunch of silver coins and asked the seller if he would like to take silver instead of "funny money." The seller declined. So the transaction was done with "fiat currency" instead of "metal backed security."
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Yes, DOR's surprise surprises me. My grandmother told me stories how they horde rice. Therefore, it should be no surprise that they horde money.

                    Mind you, economic wise, it sucks. Horded rice will always feed. Take money out of circulation and it looses its value.
                    Rice can get spoiled or be eaten by rats or other forms of pest. That is why gold was the preferred method for hoarding long term.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                      Come on, how long have you been in Hong Kong? You should know by now Asians save money like there's...uh....lots of tomorrows.
                      40% is extremely high, even by Asian standards.

                      OK, I did some research, and now I’m even more surprised.

                      First, there are definitional problems. There’s national savings, and then there’s household or personal saving. It can be gross or net, and might be defined as a percent of income, of disposable income or of GDP.
                      This article says “The house savings rates of Japan and S. Korea are near all-time lows, and near the bottom among members of the OECD.”

                      Japan: 1.9% (household savings / GDP); Korea: 2.8%; France: 13.2%; USA: 3.7%.
                      Source: Asian American: Savings Rates Near All-Time Lows for Japan, Korea Goldsea

                      But, the Japanese Statistics Bureau data doesn’t look anything like it.

                      Household disposable income (Q-2, 2014): ¥353,014 ($3,398)
                      Surplus (i.e., savings): ¥81,694 ($786)
                      Ratio: 23.1%
                      Source: Statistics Bureau Home Page/Results of Total Households/The third quarter of 2014 Survey Results

                      So, my original 40% figure was wrong.
                      Mea Culpa.
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                        40% is extremely high, even by Asian standards.

                        OK, I did some research, and now I’m even more surprised.

                        First, there are definitional problems. There’s national savings, and then there’s household or personal saving. It can be gross or net, and might be defined as a percent of income, of disposable income or of GDP.
                        This article says “The house savings rates of Japan and S. Korea are near all-time lows, and near the bottom among members of the OECD.”

                        Japan: 1.9% (household savings / GDP); Korea: 2.8%; France: 13.2%; USA: 3.7%.
                        Source: Asian American: Savings Rates Near All-Time Lows for Japan, Korea Goldsea

                        But, the Japanese Statistics Bureau data doesn’t look anything like it.

                        Household disposable income (Q-2, 2014): ¥353,014 ($3,398)
                        Surplus (i.e., savings): ¥81,694 ($786)
                        Ratio: 23.1%
                        Source: Statistics Bureau Home Page/Results of Total Households/The third quarter of 2014 Survey Results

                        So, my original 40% figure was wrong.
                        Mea Culpa.
                        Well, household figures won't jive up with national figures at all depending on where household saving is actually going. For instance, if the government is issuing bonds and spending the money on transfer spending to older people, who in turn spend a portion of it on local bonds that go to pay school teachers, who then buy locally produced food, there is absolutely zero saving and all household "savings" is really buying consumer goods for the old and the school teachers.
                        "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                        Comment


                        • of course, hoarding is extremely economically inefficient if you live in a first-world country.

                          and hoarding silver/gold makes even less sense IMHO. if we're ever in that type of apocalyptic situation, you'd be far better off hoarding weapons/ammo, food, and medicine. you'd be stuck at a barter economy for a long time before recovery to even a metal-based currency system.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                          Comment


                          • I can't believe people are still using nominal GDP to compare countries. China and India overtook Japan YEARS ago, and China will overtake the US economy NEXT year. Look at GDP expressed in dollars using purchasing power parity (PPP). You can see the list of countries by GDP (PPP) in wikipedia here: List of countries by GDP (PPP) List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                            Comment


                            • No real economist uses PPP as a measure. PPP dollars are worth as much as the paper they're printed on.
                              Chimo

                              Comment


                              • Tumisu,

                                Welcome to the WAB. Feel free to introduce yourself here: http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wab...w-members.html

                                And, let's meet up so I can exchange my PPP for any and all real world money you'd like to get rid of.
                                I'll even let you decide on the exchange rate.

                                Deal?

                                .

                                .

                                .

                                Nah, I didn't think so.
                                Last edited by DOR; 23 Nov 14,, 03:14.
                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!

                                Comment

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