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  • Why is America a target for terrorists...

    I do not believe that if America changes its policy and withdraws from the Middle East it will cease to be a target for terrorists. I think that America is hated by terrorists just because it is powerful.. It has been the same. America has given more money to the world than any country,taken part in a lot of international relief projects,yet everything seems to be forgotten,except the bad things...

    What is the problem?? Doesn't it try hard enough?? There are obviously things that America does that are really bad.. America has supported questionable regimes,but so have a lot of countries..But does anyone direct hate at all those other countries?? No,it is all directed at America..

    So I think the problem is not America,but the fact that it is strong..People are envious..And those people are vain enough to think that their lives will mean something if they humiliate America. Have you ever seen a big time terrorist figure become a suicide bomber?? No,they have the masses to recruit from...

    You can either be strong or be liked....
    "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."

    Protester

  • #2
    Most probably true.

    Terrorists will never finish thier demands, i mean after you leave the middle east and take Israel with you, they'll want compensation, then they'll launch jihads to make you muslim.......absolute bullsh.t like that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well first of all the US is the only superpower right now. Like no other country they stand for the way of life of the western hemisphere.

      Many of the values of our society are seen as a threat to their culture.
      For example equal rights for women, critical stance toward believe and religion etc

      Combine it with the miltary might. and a certain arrogance with the attitude Amerika first and **** the rest of the world.

      The US loves to put itself outside the interantional community if it doesn´t see a direct advantage to its position: Ban on land mines, greenhouse gases, small arms trade, international court , developing mini nukes but telling other nations you are not trustworthy enough to have them. The list is long.


      At least from my point of view, Amerika has trouble to admit when they made a mistake. War in Irak, killing of the italian security agent, , gutamno bay etc.


      Undestand me correct please I admire Amerika that they try at least and are not only passive like my government and most governments in Europe. Still i would like to see sometimes that they admit doing mistakes (first step to improve afterwards) Blowing up a wedding in Afghanistan due to wrong information does not endear you but afterwards blame the hurt people does not help your course at all.

      Killing 114 people in Italy in the accident with mountain cable rail way because your pilots show and afterwards saying noone is to blame thats hard. Consider the overprotectiveness of the US regarding its own citizen.

      I don´t think that Amerika has been a special target for terrorists before th 11of September. I still believe that it has been one in a million chance for the terrorists to hit as hard as they did. I think NOW due to the actions of the US afterwards, the risk for Americans are much higher. I have seen people in Jordania and Egypt spit on the ground when an american passes by. If you make a tourist trip there even the guides use half of the time to condemm the US. Before there was desinteresst and certain disdain for the US + Europe and the western style of life. Now you have created real hatred as far as I have seen.

      Comment


      • #4
        You are mistaken,Sombra...

        A few examples,

        Nairobi,Tanzania,USS Cole,WTC in the 90's...just to name a few....and a lot others we will never hear about...

        In fact the only way the US is gonna be liked is only if it self-destructs..The US is not the root of the world's problems,the world is the root of the world's problems....


        And people remember US mistakes from time immortal..But does anyone remember things like the Marshall plan,the billions of dollars for Europe's defence during the cold war???? The fact is that there are a lot of people out there who take the US's money in aid and afterwards criticize the US for not giving them enough...

        I started this thread to make people put themselves in the US's shoes for a while...
        "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."

        Protester

        Comment


        • #5
          The US has done a lot of good things in the world but it has also done a lot of really bad things. It is not alone in this, I can't think of a single country that hasn't been "bad" in some way at one time or another. When it comes to the middle east though, the US has a lot to answer for.

          First and foremost is the creation and support of Isreal. Remember, before WWII there was no Isreal - what is now Israel was then Palestine.

          There were Jews living in Palestine, living alongside palestinians peacefully. There was no great hatred between muslims and jews and they got along fairly well.

          After WWII the US was forfront in expropriating most of Palestine and creating Israel. The Palestinians were pushed aside and the Jews moved in.

          So basically, Palestine was stolen and given to the Jews. Steal something from one faith and give it to another and its inevitible that the two faiths will clash. As the formost supporter of this expropriation, the US takes a large share of the blame. The US population never thought of it as stealing Palestine, they thought of it as creating a homeland for the Jews who were so badly harmed during WWII - a compasionate act. I don't know if many people actually realized the act was also a theft.

          Roosevelt promised King Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia that the USA would "do nothing to assist the Jews against the Arabs and would make no move hostile to the Arab people." in regard to the creation of Israel. Roosevelt died and President Truman did not feel he was bound by any promises made by Roosevelt. The Saudi's viewed Truman's support of Israel as a direct betrayal.

          Then there was Iran. Nobody ever talks about Iran pre-Ayatollah these days but it is a fascinating topic. From about 1900 to 1951 Iran's government went through a lot of termoil. The old fuedal system was under a lot of pressure to democratize. There was lots of wins and losses on both sides but the result was that the Democratic forces won in 1951, Electing Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh as Prime Minister. Time Magazine even had him as Man of the Year in 1951. Yes, Iran had a democratic government.

          Mohammad Mossadegh had a vision for Iran - he wanted it to be a middle-eastern version of the USA. He was pro-democracy, pro-USA, and started working towards developing Iran as a self-sufficient westernized industrial economy.

          In 1953 the USA backed a coup by the Shah and toppled the democratic government, handing power back to the dictator. The USA did not like the idea that Iran would be independant (even if a friendly ally). It didn't like the idea of iran processing its own oil, producing the plastics, fuels, and other products. It wanted the crude so IT could do all the value added stuff - keeping Iran dependant on the USA.

          The Iranian people have never forgotten this and it was/is a major factor in Iranian hostility toward the USA. When the Shah was deposed the Iranian people viewed it as toppling the USA's control over Iran.

          The rest of the middle east wasn't living in a vacuum, they all saw this too.

          There are many more examples but this is too long already. The USA has never been "kind" to the Middle east and in fact has done a lot to harm it (in Arab view at least). The USA isn't alone in this by any stretch, Britain, Italy, France, and many other countries have done a lot of harm as well - but the USA is still there and the strongest influence today. That is why the USA is the target of Middle Eastern terrorists.

          Try looking at this from the perspective of an Iranian, Saudi, or Palestinian muslim. Would you view the USA as a friendly helpful country or as an enemy?
          "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of the government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power."
          -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MIKEMUN
            You are mistaken,Sombra...
            And people remember US mistakes from time immortal..But does anyone remember things like the Marshall plan,the billions of dollars for Europe's defence during the cold war???? The fact is that there are a lot of people out there who take the US's money in aid and afterwards criticize the US for not giving them enough...

            I started this thread to make people put themselves in the US's shoes for a while...
            Lord knows Europe wouldn't do anything like that. If anyone wants to know why the world is so screwed up, here's why: a group of countries colonized the world and took every natural resource. After taking all the resources, they left the peoples high and dry and then decided to play god with the map putting opposing peoples in the same state. After doing all this they absolved themselves of any wrong doing in the matter.
            F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BenRoethig
              Lord knows Europe wouldn't do anything like that. If anyone wants to know why the world is so screwed up, here's why: a group of countries colonized the world and took every natural resource. After taking all the resources, they left the peoples high and dry and then decided to play god with the map putting opposing peoples in the same state. After doing all this they absolved themselves of any wrong doing in the matter.
              Did I ever say it is fair that the US is regarded in this way?

              I don´t believe the US has to destroy itself, you were actually good at conquering the wolrd with coke and baywatch , lets say this was before 11th September.

              A small group of lunatics have done more IMHO then I believed possible. The US lost its balance and its way. Right now you spend a hell of a money on arms. Last year terrorist acts were 4x times the number then before 2001. Couldn´t you do it the way Israel dealt a long time with terrorism at least. Look for the culprits and deal with them silently?

              Well it is funy that you acuse the "Europes" to have a long memory. The points I mentioned at least were quite actual. Israel is a sore topic. It has been never handeled very well neither by Europe, the Arabs, Israel, or Amerika. Rabin was on the right way when he was backstabbed politically by the Arabs form my point of view.

              Long story short: I don´t think that the US was especially hated in the past. some kind of groaning and certain envy but nothing serious. But I think the politics of the last years change that dramatically

              Comment


              • #8
                Terrorists act against the U.S. because we are a big, relatively easy target.

                The world speaks out against the U.S. because
                1) We are Top Dog and everyone who isn't harbors some sort of resentment about that.
                2) We solve problems instead of learning to live with them and most of the rest of the Western World doesn't work that way.

                -dale

                Comment


                • #9
                  Banish the idea that countries and communities "dislike" the US because it is powerful.

                  The USSR was also big and powerful but was there dislike for them?

                  The reason is pure and simple, like it or not, USSR kept a low profile and their diplomats met locals. The US always acted as if they alone knew the panacea for all the ills of the host country and they only mixed with the elite!

                  Exceptions like the US Consul General and his wife in Kolkata (Calcutta) who dress up in an Indian way and mix with the hoi polloi is the toast of the town and this state is a Commie run state! Such people alone can change the perspective of the US that US is a country that has no class distinction and are as humane in approach as any other human!

                  Feelings like Top dog even if they are so, does not help. One hs tobe the Top Dog and show humility and let others realise that indeed the US is the Top Dog.

                  It maybe worth one while to see how the Missionaries spread Christianity with love and humanity and working with the poor.
                  Last edited by Ray; 02 May 05,, 18:54.


                  "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                  I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                  HAKUNA MATATA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ray
                    The USSR was also big and powerful but was there dislike for them?

                    The reason is pure and simple, like it or not, USSR kept a low profile and their diplomats met locals. The US always acted as if they alone knew the panacea for all the ills of the host country and they only mixed with the elite!
                    The USSR's history in the third world is less than replete with success. They lost China, Egypt, Afghanistan, and many others during their time vying for supremacy with the United States, and overall had at least as much trouble controlling their "proxies" as we did.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rhodan
                      ...First and foremost is the creation and support of Isreal. Remember, before WWII there was no Isreal - what is now Israel was then Palestine.
                      The US did not create Israel. The British Mandate over Palestine predates Israel, and the League of Nations/UN and Britain partitioned the mandate and created the Israeli State.
                      Originally posted by Rhodan
                      ...There were Jews living in Palestine, living alongside palestinians peacefully. There was no great hatred between muslims and jews and they got along fairly well.
                      There were also uprisings by the Arabs prior to the partition, they got along better than they are now, but they weren't really that buddy-buddy even before the creation of Israel.
                      Originally posted by Rhodan
                      ...After WWII the US was forfront in expropriating most of Palestine and creating Israel. The Palestinians were pushed aside and the Jews moved in.
                      The Partition created Trans-Jordan for the Palestinians, which was a much larger area than Israel. Why don't the Palestinians complain about Jordan? In fact, Israel has given up territory to the Palestinians in excess of the original partition (west bank, gaza), but the Arabs will never be satisfied.
                      Originally posted by Rhodan
                      ...So basically, Palestine was stolen and given to the Jews. Steal something from one faith and give it to another and its inevitible that the two faiths will clash. As the formost supporter of this expropriation, the US takes a large share of the blame. The US population never thought of it as stealing Palestine, they thought of it as creating a homeland for the Jews who were so badly harmed during WWII - a compasionate act. I don't know if many people actually realized the act was also a theft.
                      LIke I said, it was not America that created Israel, it was Britain and the UN/League of Nations. Israel did not receive major support from the US until after 1979. Prior to that, it was Europe that was the big supporter of Israel, French nuclear technology, etc.

                      All the US did was recognize Israel as per the UN declaration. The Palestinian State was created with the formation of Trans-Jordan. Why does everyone ignore this? They act like Jordan always existed- it was created specifically as a Palestinian homeland!

                      The Arab countries have never made an honest attempt to resolve the situation- they don't allow palestinian immigration, they treat Palestinians as second class people in their countries, and they support groups like Hamas, Hizbollah, etc against Israel. When most of the palestinians left Israel, it was under Arab direction. Most Palestinians never saw any of the first war, they were already gone. They were promised that they could return after Israel was destroyed, but that didn't happen. As a result they are left in refugee camps and slums, and not permitted to integrate into the population of those countries they were encouraged to flee to.

                      I hardly see how you can blame America for the Palestinians situation- we have been trying in vain to forge a peaceful resolution for decades.
                      "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I do not believe that if America changes its policy and withdraws from the Middle East it will cease to be a target for terrorists
                        Actually it more or less would end a real threat of Islamic terrorism. Might want to ask one's self why all these terrorists come from nations that's governments are friendly to us these days. So I think our policy does play a big part in the bullseye on us.

                        The Arab countries have never made an honest attempt to resolve the situation- they don't allow palestinian immigration, they treat Palestinians as second class people in their countries, and they support groups like Hamas, Hizbollah, etc against Israel
                        Israel's invasion and occupation of Southern Lebanon is what really made Hezbollah. They occupied the Shiite land and ended up making the Shiite hostile and then Iran stepped in to support the Shiites.

                        The USSR's history in the third world is less than replete with success. They lost China, Egypt, Afghanistan, and many others during their time vying for supremacy with the United States, and overall had at least as much trouble controlling their "proxies" as we did.
                        Our 3rd world success was pretty bad. Nothing worse then having to support brutal military regimes to stamp out left wing feelings in the majority of Asia and Latin American. And within the 3rd world we got tagged (fairly or unfairly) with supporting more dicators. The conflict in Angola and the debates in the OAS showed who had made more headway in Africa.
                        To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by highsea
                          The US did not create Israel. The British Mandate over Palestine predates Israel, and the League of Nations/UN and Britain partitioned the mandate and created the Israeli State.
                          On top of that, Isrealis actually purchased the land from the Palestinians. Its not like they just took it and kicked people out.

                          Originally posted by highsea
                          Israel did not receive major support from the US until after 1979. Prior to that, it was Europe that was the big supporter of Israel, French nuclear technology, etc.
                          I don't know whether the US was the major supporter of Isreal, but they certainly enjoyed a great deal of support from America. For example, Isreal's major weapons systems were American made. My theory on this though is not that the US really wanted to support Isreal, but rather hedge them against the Soviet influence in the Arab nations.

                          Originally posted by highsea
                          They were promised that they could return after Israel was destroyed, but that didn't happen. As a result they are left in refugee camps and slums, and not permitted to integrate into the population of those countries they were encouraged to flee to.
                          The reason that the Arab nations won't let them enter is because they want to have a reason to create a Palestinian state.

                          Originally posted by highsea
                          I hardly see how you can blame America for the Palestinians situation- we have been trying in vain to forge a peaceful resolution for decades.
                          Exactly. But people choose to blame the US for giving overt support to Isreal. However, as far as I know, the US gives an equal amount of economic aid to Egypt in order to make it even.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ][QUOTE=Ray]Banish the idea that countries and communities "dislike" the US because it is powerful.

                            The USSR was also big and powerful but was there dislike for them?

                            The reason is pure and simple, like it or not, USSR kept a low profile and their diplomats met locals. The US always acted as if they alone knew the panacea for all the ills of the host country and they only mixed with the elite!

                            Exceptions like the US Consul General and his wife in Kolkata (Calcutta) who dress up in an Indian way and mix with the hoi polloi is the toast of the town and this state is a Commie run state! Such people alone can change the perspective of the US that US is a country that has no class distinction and are as humane in approach as any other human!

                            Feelings like Top dog even if they are so, does not help. One hs tobe the Top Dog and show humility and let others realise that indeed the US is the Top Dog.

                            It maybe worth one while to see how the Missionaries spread Christianity with love and humanity and working with the poor.[/QUOTE




                            I beg to differ.IMHO,their quest to be liked proved to be one of the reasons for their downfall.They tried so hard to be liked,not realising that you cannot be liked by everyone..They tried so hard that they forgot about the home front,and did not see the cracks until it was too late.....

                            The Soviet Union had a lot of hidden animosities...Look at most of the Former Soviet Republics..They still do have a lot of animosities towards Russia. Georgia,Latvia and Estonia in particular....In fact I do believe that Eastern Europe might one day become a flashpoint in Europe....There is a lot of tension in the Baltics and the Caucasian region....

                            How do you think the west is influencing the region?
                            "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."

                            Protester

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tensions between Jews and Muslim were quite mild prior to WWI. After that war, when the british started pushing for the creation of Israel, tensions increased - resulting in some attacks by both sides.

                              You are correct that the plan for Israel was not USA originated - britain did indeed do that. Under Roosevelt the USA was, at best, lukewarm about the idea.

                              With Truman's Presidency the USA changed position - betraying the Roosevelt promise of not supporting the initiative. The people of the middle east took this as America betraying them. The USA was viewed as the country that would stop partition, the great saviour. WIth the change in position they became the great betrayer. This put America at the forfront of the creation of Israel in Arab minds - even though it was Britain that originated it.

                              Saying that the Palestinians got paid isn't exactly correct. Resolution 194 (Dec 11, 1948) authorized compensation for those refugees that chose not to return to their homes and live under Israeli rule. Its not quite the same as saying the Palestinians were paid to create Isreal (which you didn't say specifically but it could be taken that way).

                              From a western perspective, we can look at it and say "Well, Arabs ended up with 85% of Palestine - what are they greedy and have to have 100%? It wasn't their land anyway, it belonged to the British.

                              If you were an Arab you aren't about to look at it from that direction. You're going to look and say "You stole 15% of our land then tried to buy us off".

                              If your own government came to your ranch and said "We're expropriating 15% of your land" - how would you react? If they said "Well, you can use it but under our terms but we own it", would that make you happy? Would an after-the-fact payment (market value or not) make you happy that the land was expropriated?

                              Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to condem the USA (or any other country) for the creation of Israel. Those were different days, basically the end of the Empire period. The world was different place from what it is today. I'm also not trying to convince anyone that Israel should be dissolved - just trying to provide a part of the answer the question asked in the subject line.

                              Personally, I don't see any good way to solve this problem. If Israel is dissolved and the land given back to the Arabs, you'll have Jewish terrorists fighting in Palestine - no real change there. About the best I can see is going back to the original borders - at least that would take some of the wind out of the Palestinian sails - though I'm not sure that'll really calm things down all that much.
                              "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of the government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power."
                              -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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