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  • More Wikileaks leaks..again??????

    Hidden US Afghan war details' revealed by Wikileaks
    US troops near Kandahar 24.7.10 The White House says the records refer to a period before the current US strategy came into effect

    More than 90,000 leaked US military records have been published on the website Wikileaks, reportedly revealing hidden details of the Afghanistan war.

    Three major news publications which have been shown the documents say they include unreported killings of Afghan civilians.

    The huge cache of classified papers is described as one of the biggest leaks in US military history.
    Related stories

    * Profile: Who are WikiLeaks?
    * Q&A: Fighting the Taliban

    The White House has condemned the leaks as "irresponsible".

    Reports by the UK daily The Guardian, the New York Times and the German weekly Der Spiegel say the leaked papers reveal Nato concerns that neighbouring Pakistan and Iran are helping Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan.

    The Pakistani ambassador in Washington said the "unprocessed" reports did "not reflect the current onground realities".

    "The United States, Afghanistan and Pakistan are strategic partners and are jointly endeavoring to defeat Al-Qaeda and its Taliban allies militarily and politically," said Husain Haqqani.

    The reports also suggest:

    * The Taliban has had access to portable heat-seeking missiles to shoot at aircraft.
    * A secret US unit of army and navy special forces has been engaged on missions to "capture or kill" top insurgents.
    * Many civilian casualties have gone unreported, both as a result of Taliban roadside bombs and Nato missions that went wrong.

    The BBC's diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall says that although the documents reveal no dramatic new insights, they show the difficulties of the war and the civilan death toll.

    The reports offer an unvarnished and grim picture of the Afghan war, she adds.

    In a statement, US National Security Adviser Gen James Jones said such classified information "could put the lives of Americans and our partners at risk, and threaten our national security".

    He said the documents covered the period from 2004 to 2009, before President Obama "announced a new strategy with a substantial increase in resources for Afghanistan".
    'Civilian deaths'

    Another US official said that Wikileaks - which specialises in making public untraceable material from whistleblowers - was not an objective news outlet and described it as an organisation that opposes US policy in Afghanistan.

    Wikileaks is releasing the set of documents under the title Afghan War Diary. It says is has delayed the release of about 15,000 reports from the archive as part of a "harm minimisation process demanded by our source".

    The Guardian and the New York Times say they had no contact with the original source of the leak, but spent weeks crosschecking the information.

    The reports come as Nato says it is investigating reports that as many as 45 civilians died in an air strike in Helmand province on Friday.

    Although an initial Nato investigation found no evidence, a BBC journalist visiting Regey village spoke to several people who said they had witnessed the incident.

    They said the attack had come in daylight as dozens sheltered from fighting in nearby Joshani.

    A Nato spokesman said international forces went to great measures to avoid civilian casualties.

    "The safety of the Afghan people is very important to the International Security Assistance Forces," Lt Col Chris Hughes added.

    BBC News - 'Hidden US Afghan war details' revealed by Wikileaks
    "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."

    Protester

  • #2
    The White House responded swiftly and sharply to publication Sunday evening of more than 91,000 secret documents painting a bleak picture of the Afghanistan war, calling the leak “irresponsible” and saying that the source – the whistleblower website WikiLeaks — “opposes U.S. policy in Afghanistan.”

    WikiLeaks said its "Afghan War Diary" consists mostly of reports "written by soldiers and intelligence officers ... describing lethal military actions involving the United States military." WikiLeaks gave three news organizations – The New York Times, The (British) Guardian and Germany’s Der Spiegel – advance access to the "war logs" trove.

    White House National Security Adviser James Jones issued a statement that begins: “The United States strongly condemns the disclosure of classified information by individuals and organizations which could put the lives of Americans and our partners at risk, and threaten our national security.

    “Wikileaks made no effort to contact us about these documents – the United States government learned from news organizations that these documents would be posted. These irresponsible leaks will not impact our ongoing commitment to deepen our partnerships with Afghanistan and Pakistan; to defeat our common enemies; and to support the aspirations of the Afghan and Pakistani people.

    “The documents posted by Wikileaks reportedly cover a period of time from January 2004 to December 2009. On December 1, 2009, President Obama announced a new strategy with a substantial increase in resources for Afghanistan, and increased focus on al Qaeda and Taliban safe-havens in Pakistan, precisely because of the grave situation that had developed over several years.”

    An administration official went further in an e-mail to reporters: “I don’t think anyone who follows this issue will find it surprising that there are concerns about ISI and safe havens in Pakistan. In fact, we’ve said as much repeatedly and on the record. …

    “The period of time covered in these documents (January 2004-December 2009) is before the President announced his new strategy. Some of the disconcerting things reported are exactly why the President ordered a three month policy review and a change in strategy.”

    The official added: “[I]t’s worth noting that WikiLeaks is not an objective news outlet but rather an organization that opposes U.S. policy in Afghanistan."

    The official highlighted this passage in The Guardian’s coverage: “[F]or all their eye-popping details, the intelligence files, which are mostly collated by junior officers relying on informants and Afghan officials, fail to provide a convincing smoking gun for ISI complicity. Most of the reports are vague, filled with incongruent detail, or crudely fabricated. The same characters – famous Taliban commanders, well-known ISI officials – and scenarios repeatedly pop up. And few of the events predicted in the reports subsequently occurred.

    “A retired senior American officer said ground-level reports were considered to be a mixture of ‘rumours, [baloney] and second-hand information’ and were weeded out as they passed up the chain of command. ‘As someone who had to sift through thousands of these reports, I can say that the chances of finding any real information are pretty slim,’ said the officer, who has years of experience in the region.

    “If anything, the jumble of allegations highlights the perils of collecting accurate intelligence in a complex arena where all sides have an interest in distorting the truth.”

    W.H. condemns 'irresponsible' leaks, dismisses stories - Mike Allen - POLITICO.com
    "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."

    Protester

    Comment


    • #3
      I think best site to read these is Guardian,where you can reach both raw reports and by Guardian analyzed ones.

      Afghanistan: The war logs | World news | guardian.co.uk

      Hell,they've even put up a dictionary for us to easily read the raw reports.

      Iran offers reward for each Afghan official and soldier killed, according to coalition report | World news | guardian.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Spagnostic View Post
        I think best site to read these is Guardian,where you can reach both raw reports and by Guardian analyzed ones.

        Afghanistan: The war logs | World news | guardian.co.uk

        Hell,they've even put up a dictionary for us to easily read the raw reports.

        Iran offers reward for each Afghan official and soldier killed, according to coalition report | World news | guardian.co.uk
        I bet the Guardian is salivating considering their hatred for the U.S. Every single thing wrong in the world is our fault considering what I read there.

        Skimming the version up top. Concerns the Iranians and Pakistanis were helping the Taliban. Well, that's been discussed on this board for years.
        Last edited by rj1; 26 Jul 10,, 12:48.

        Comment


        • #5
          Irresponsibility

          Blaming wikileaks for these documents is like blaming cows for walking out of an open gate. You trace the documents and their handlers, rigorously interview each and punish those directly culpable by providing access to wikileaks or those indirectly culpable by failure to properly manage the processes which assure confidential documents are protected.

          How far that reaches is beyond me but government officials, high or low-ranking, deserve the hammer to be fully dropped.

          As for the supposedly newsworthy stuff, anybody who's seen footage of A-10s or AH-64s dropping flares in full daylight during gun-runs can assume those pilots weren't doing so for kicks n' grins nor out of knee-jerk reflexive action. That there may be anything from Redeye, Stinger, SA-7 Strela or more advanced anti-aircraft missiles can be reasonably assumed. That they're non-factors tactically to this point can also be reasonably assumed. That they indicate the possibility of access by the taliban to relatively sophisticated weaponry from some foreign government can also be reasonably assumed.

          Civilian casualties that are unaccounted in THIS war? Sure. Why not? This isn't an accounting exercise in some CFO's office. That's no indication that there's a concerted attempt to diminish those killed as the raw numbers still decisively pale next to the Afghan civil war or the Afghan-Soviet war.

          SOF actions have long been tacitly acknowledged. Was that not a Karzai complaint about forced entry in the dead of night? You can be assured those men conducting such were black ops types. Further, were those ops not a signature forte of McChrystal in Iraq?

          ISI involvement? Big deal. Our government has decidedly turned a blind eye to such in our efforts to en-noble and raise forth the prestige of Pakistan to make acceptable aiding and abetting those killing our troops. Cost of doing business means accepting our enemy killing our men to assure the sporadic supply of our men. Get it?

          I don't but that's for another day.
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • #6
            But S-2, isn't this treason? Or has the word lost all meaning now?
            "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."

            Protester

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, and Yes
              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MIKEMUN View Post
                But S-2, isn't this treason? Or has the word lost all meaning now?
                Well you need two witnesses to one crime. It's intentionally hard to prove.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Access

                  I was only a simple tactical intelligence artillery officer but we had access rosters and protected documents. I was either on those rosters or not permitted to briefings and/or access to certain materials.

                  This is nothing substantively different that a wire-man trouble-shooting a broken line. Whether the command emphasis is there to put a stop to a culture of background comments, leaks, brain-farts, etc is a different matter.

                  Heads rolled in the Air Force for improper security surrounding nuclear weapons...and for good reason. Why should anything like this be any different and for what do our highest-paid security officials exist but to fall on their swords when systemic errors are so commonplace? Or repair the breaches and punish the malfactors.

                  wikileaks, as ignoble as they are, are the messenger and I'm never in favor of their execution without first locating the source of the well.
                  "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                  "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by S-2 View Post
                    wikileaks, as ignoble as they are, are the messenger and I'm never in favor of their execution without first locating the source of the well.

                    I believe it was the same guy who leaked the gun camera footage a few months back. Apparently he spent months downloading stuff onto CDs labelled with music (he would lip synch to whatever was supposed to be on there while he was burning the stuff onto disc). he has already been busted - turned in by the guy he was leaking stuff to I believe. Don't know who else will be in the frame, but you have to figure heads will roll. (sorry, no link, just saw it on TV news).
                    sigpic

                    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Too many handlers I suspect. Seems they pointing the finger at some young Private arrested in Kuwait... Quite likely he may have had access as most of it is history and he is described as 'military analyst' which could cover any number of sins. Seems likely that only low level access was required to what are mostly past reports and essentialy internal memos. You could be looking at several thousand people who have had access over the time period. This does not rule out random hacking either or enemy breaks. Certainly the encryption keys should be be more secure and I would start there.

                      Bigfella I think you are referring to the young guy being held in Kuwait - "Army Spc Bradley Manning is accused of transferring classified data on to his personal computer and transmitting it to an unauthorised third party."

                      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10529110
                      Last edited by snapper; 28 Jul 10,, 10:33.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by snapper View Post
                        Too many handlers I suspect. Seems they pointing the finger at some young Private arrested in Kuwait... Quite likely he may have had access as most of it is history and he is described as 'military analyst' which could cover any number of sins. Seems likely that only low level access was required to what are mostly past reports and essentialy internal memos. You could be looking at several thousand people who have had access over the time period. This does not rule out random hacking either or enemy breaks. Certainly the encryption keys should be be more secure and I would start there.

                        Bigfella I think you are referring to the young guy being held in Kuwait - "Army Spc Bradley Manning is accused of transferring classified data on to his personal computer and transmitting it to an unauthorised third party."

                        BBC News - US soldier linked to Iraq helicopter video leak charged
                        Thanks Snapper. I got the impression he was the guy in the frame, but I might have got the wrong end of the story.
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          These leaks just confirm the Indian point of view that the US is pouring money into US army coffins through pakistan. I don't remember any other instance when a small country is taking onto a superpower while ostentatiously pretending to be on their side and blaming the "instances" on "rouged" elements in PAKMIL/ISI. The US is still supporting their "ally" pakistan even though it is aware that whatever actions PAKMIL/ISI is taking are against only those who are against PAKMIL/ISI. As is confirmed by the khost area warlogs that even after the PAKMIL said it is firmly under control of area on their side the "accidents" actually increased by 300%.

                          Don't know what is the strategy of Obama/CIA as I don't foresee a complete withdrawal of US army now that they are spending $1.6 Billion on new base. But on the otherhand they are doing nothing against PAKMIL/ISI who have uptill now ensured that they are a step ahead of others in controlling Astan after the cutdown of US troops. And I won't be surprised to know that during the evil airlift in Musharaff regime, the people evacuated were senior Taliban/Al-qaeda man as also the fact that PAKMIL regulars fought alongside taliban.

                          Have to say PAKMIL/ISI are among the smartest in the world to befool a superpower as they are getting paid for achieving their objective of controlling Astan.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            martinmystry Reply

                            "Have to say PAKMIL/ISI are among the smartest in the world to befool a superpower as they are getting paid for achieving their objective of controlling Astan."

                            Pakistan no doubt thanks India for its $1B+ aid contribution to its newest province.;)

                            You're trolling and, like many trolls living in caves, you've developed a short-sightedness which serves you poorly. Stop it and step into the light where you may be healed.
                            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              STRATFOR had a good analysis of the Wikileaks in one of their articles last week; yes, it was a breach of security (if not protocol), but for anybody who's been paying any attention to the war in Afghanistan, none of the divulged information should come as a surprise. We've known for years that the ISI has been playing both sides of the field, and what STRATFOR says makes sense: Pakistan knows that we won't be there forever, but Afghanistan will always be their neighbor and, therefore, a strategic concern. They can afford to play for time.

                              WikiLeaks and the Afghan War | STRATFOR
                              "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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