Gurkha ordered back to UK after beheading dead Taliban fighter

[dave lukins]

Captain Lukins,

"it's not a cricket match out there."

No, it certainly isn't. I hope your MoD and his RSM understand such. Please read my below comment carefully.

"...this young man had no malevolent intent in mind and was simply explicitly following orders on an already quite dead targeted taliban commander...and doing so under ardurous circumstance."

I fully understood that his unit and self were under intense fire, making impossible the recovery of the full body for purposes of I.D. I suspect the young Gurkha soldier remembered one thing...provide indisputable evidence of the HVT's identification. Those two imperatives clashed at that moment and he simply did the best he could to satisfy both the circumstance and his obligations.

I wonder if he acted out an Order rather than by using his own initiative. I'm not au fait with Commanders giving specific Orders such as this down to Private level. Hence, was he ordered by someone else to collect this 'evidence'? Gurkha soldiers are very much controlled by their Commanders and find it hard to believe this soldier carried out this operation, without being ordered to by his immediate commander on the ground. They were, at the time, angered by the deaths of their colleagues and this may have been an act of revenge by this man alone. We will just have to wait to get the full story.

[Red Seven]

You can JDAM them into pink mist but God help you if you offend them.

[astralis]

Red,

pretty much. there's always worse things than death, after all. it's not much different for our side; it's a bit easier to stomach when a poor soldier or marine is simply shot and killed, as opposed to getting ambushed and strung up on a bridge, or having their bodies dragged along in the dust.

in this event, i'd be interested in seeing how this develops. my own feeling for the moment is that this should be one of the award AND punishment things. the gurkha should be rewarded for completing his mission at high personal risk...and punished for giving our enemies one more bit of propaganda.

[S2]

Lukins Reply

I've injected some personal presumptions-1.) that his actions were ruled by the imperative of his orders to provide I.D., 2.) the need for expedience given that his unit was engaged and, 3.)"...no malevolent intent...".

"I'm not au fait with Commanders giving specific Orders such as this down to Private level."

I've some modest experience with general guidance taking a very literal interpretation by the time it reaches the individual private soldier. Perhaps you too from time to time?:))

"Gurkha soldiers are very much controlled by their Commanders and find it hard to believe this soldier carried out this operation, without being ordered to by his immediate commander on the ground."

In our army his most immediate commander would be the fireteam leader-usually a corporal or buck sergeant followed by a buck or staff sergeant squad leader.

"...this may have been an act of revenge by this man alone. We will just have to wait to get the full story."

Not an un-natural reaction but I've zero experience with Ghurka troops. My understanding is that they're immensely disciplined and, away from combat, equally immensely gentle souls. I may have too charitable a view. In the end only this young soldier really knows the entire story, to include his personal thoughts at the time. Somebody in his chain-of-command will learn it all. What happens beyond that is really army business IMV.

On a more global scale, it's too bad this story has to come to light. In another day and age it likely might have been just another faceless battle encounter amidst a bevy of small-unit actions across a broad spectrum. The level of scrutiny imposed on these troops now seems crushing. Dangerously so. The battlefield provides enough for which to be concerned such that young soldiers shouldn't be worried about what the Pentagon or MoD might pontificate from Olympus after-the-fact.

[Aryajet]

Why should they (who ever they are) publicize such a small scale battlefield incident?

Don't they know this publicity will provide couple of more droplets of lubricant to the islamists worldwide propaganda machine?

The burden of responsibility lies on the shoulder of those who decided to publicize it, not on the shoulders of the soldier whose adrenaline was in its highest boiling point in the battlefield.

HVTs or any other Talibs don't carry picture IDs and fingers or ears will not suffice for positive ID, soldier had no other choice, he carried out his orders and he should be rewarded for, not chastised.

[Tronic]

Red,

pretty much. there's always worse things than death, after all. it's not much different for our side; it's a bit easier to stomach when a poor soldier or marine is simply shot and killed, as opposed to getting ambushed and strung up on a bridge, or having their bodies dragged along in the dust.

in this event, i'd be interested in seeing how this develops. my own feeling for the moment is that this should be one of the award AND punishment things. the gurkha should be rewarded for completing his mission at high personal risk...and punished for giving our enemies one more bit of propaganda.

You cannot possibly equate the 2 sides together. One beheaded Talib pig, big woop. This is the same enemy which videotaped deaths by beheadings (and some of the most brutal beheadings, tieing up their defenceless and unarmed victims and slowly cutting through their throats). They did this to many non-combatants from several countries. Infact, these same pricks had beheaded 9 Nepali civilians in Afghanistan not long ago. So all I can say to the young Gurkha is job well done! In the Falklands war, the enemy surrendered upon hearing the arrival of the Gurkhas; its time the Talibunnies also start to get a taste of the Khukri.

[Deltacamelately]

I for one, know of certain incidents where these bearded fkucs have been involved in more so called "anti-islamic" savage acts than merely beheading a dead body for the sole purpose of identification amidst flying lead. The RSM might have his day and the little chap might be forced to mugup the entire GC manuscript, but it will have zero impact upon the Talibs war mogering and C.I in general.

[lemontree]

And he embarrassed his regiment for his stupidity. Nothing is going to come of this publically but his ass belongs to the RSM ... frankly, I rather face a GCM.

Sir,

Then you don't know the Gurkha. That is the way he fights, he did nothing wrong. He has been fighting like this in all wars. They do not bayonet charge in battles, but Khukri charge - rifle in left hand and Khukri in right hand.

Besides when you deal with the Taliban, please through the "good conduct book" out of the window.

But that's me sir.

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir,

Then you don't know the Gurkha. That is the way he fights, he did nothing wrong. He has been fighting like this in all wars. They do not bayonet charge in battles, but Khukri charge - rifle in left hand and Khukri in right hand.

Never said he did anything wrong, Captain. It was an embarrassment, not disgraceful conduct. There is a distinct difference between the two. You don't bring charges on embarrassment. At least I never did. At the very least, he should have kept his mouth shut to outsiders.

[astralis]

tronic,

You cannot possibly equate the 2 sides together. One beheaded Talib pig, big woop. This is the same enemy which videotaped deaths by beheadings (and some of the most brutal beheadings, tieing up their defenceless and unarmed victims and slowly cutting through their throats). They did this to many non-combatants from several countries. Infact, these same pricks had beheaded 9 Nepali civilians in Afghanistan not long ago. So all I can say to the young Gurkha is job well done! In the Falklands war, the enemy surrendered upon hearing the arrival of the Gurkhas; its time the Talibunnies also start to get a taste of the Khukri.

i'm not. my response tracks with what the good colonel said above; by all means, let the taliban know that one of their members is now lighter a head, but for godssakes there's no need for anybody else to know. that makes for bad propaganda.

[indus creed]

tronic,



i'm not. my response tracks with what the good colonel said above; by all means, let the taliban know that one of their members is now lighter a head, but for godssakes there's no need for anybody else to know. that makes for bad propaganda.

Agreed.