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What would Hiryu Sakuradan 3 ton thermite do to a battleship

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  • What would Hiryu Sakuradan 3 ton thermite do to a battleship

    I came across this interesting bit of info on a rare Japanese weapon.... a Kamikaze bomber with what looks to be a 3 ton shaped charge, I know the literature calls it a thermite bomb but it has a shape that resembles a shaped charge and being of german origin maybe it is, hope this has not been posted before....if it has im sorry for necropstin:)



    What would a Ki-167 Peggy Hiryu Sakuradan 3 ton thermite bomb or something of this size do to a battleship? Keep reading...

    Ki-167 was a Hiryu version specifically adapted to accommodate the so-called Sakuradan 3 ton thermite bomb. The thermite-based directional incendiary charge installed in the Ki-167 was an unconventional 6,393-lb weapon, shaped somewhat like a pressure cooker with a diameter of 5 ft 3 in and the base facing forward and angled downward some 15 deg, demanded some structural modifications of the fuselage. The bomb was placed on the aircraft CG and its diameter necessitated the cutting away of some of the upper fuselage structure, the protruding portion being enclosed by a plywood fairing reminiscent of a camels hump. The rear casing of the charge was parabolic and 19.7 in thick in order to direct the blast forward. Special attack version equipped with one thermite bomb of 2,900 kg (6,400 lb) in the fuselage behind the crew cabin. The shape of the bomb conducted the blast forward, projecting a jet capable of reaching nearly a mile with a maximum blast radius of 300 m (980 ft). The bomb was designed to breach emplacements as well as to destroy massed formations of armor
    Whether there is a direct, technology-transfer link between the SHL series of German weapons and the Japanese Sakuradan is difficult to say, but I would consider it plausible. The link below does claim that the Sakuradan was based on a German weapon, but doesn't mention the SHL-6000 specifically
    The Sakuradan was based on a weapon developed in Germany in WWII, the plans for which were taken to Japan aboard the submarine I-30 in October 1942, and testing was conducted in the strictest secrecy at Pai-Chengzi in Manchuria. During these trials it was ascertained that the fierce flame generated by the weapon projected some 3,280 ft ahead of the point of detonation and at a distance of 985 ft from impact a medium tank could be totally destroyed. With insertion of the Sakuradan in the Hiryu, the starboard controls were deleted, the crew being reduced to pilot, engineer, navigator and radio operators, and all gun positions were faired over.
    The first two Sakuradan-equipped Ki-167s were completed in February 1945, and after flight testing at Kagamigahara, these were delivered to the “special attack” unit of the 62nd Sentai at Tachiarai, to where the unit had transferred from Nishi Tsukuba. This unit also possessed several To-Go Hiryus, and the first mission with a single Sakuradan-equipped aircraft was flown from Kanoya, Kyushu, on 17 April, in concert with two To-Go Hiryus. The Ki-167 was piloted by Lt Kozaburo Kato and its target, as was that of the accompanying To-Go Hiryus, was the Allied carriers and other naval vessels off Okinawa.
    The three aircraft took-off at intervals between 0715 and 0726 hours, successfully eluding interception by F6F hellcats SE of Tokunsoshima Island at about 0950 hours. At 1010 hours, Lt Kato broke radio silence with the message: “Have found a carrier. Am attacking!” Shortly after this, Cdt Maemura, who was flying as navigator in one of the To-Go Hiryus, saw flame streaming back from the Sakuradan equipped aircraft, the nose of which suddenly pulled up sharply as it disappeared into cloud, and it was assumed that the Ki-167 was mortally hit before it could commence its attack on the target that Lt Kato had reported.
    A second “special attack” unit was formed by the 62nd Sentai with two more Sakurandan equipped Ki-167s and two To-Go Hiryus, flying its first mission on 27 May from Kanoya against Allied naval forces west of Okinawa. Both Ki-167s disappeared after signalling that they were attacking targets and both To-Go Hiryus returned to base when they failed to find suitable targets. The “special attack” units of the 62nd Sentai were the only recipients of the Ki-167s, comparatively few of which were completed, at least one of these being destroyed in an accident and another as a result of sabotage. It is recorded that a unit equipped with Ki-167s under the command of Maj Isamu Katano was formed in June 1945, and was scheduled to leave Japan for an attack on Saipan on 16 August, the day after official ceasefire, yet no example of the Sakuradan equipped aircraft was found by the Allies after the occupation.



    Mistel combinations consisted of a twin-engined bomber, in practice almost always a modified Ju 88, with a fighter (Bf 109 or Fw 190) mounted on top. The bomber was unmanned, its cockpit replaced by a large shaped-charge warhead, and additional tanks were installed to transfer fuel to the fighter. The combination was controlled by the pilot of the fighter. He would aim the Mistel at a target, then uncouple his fighter to fly back home. Over 250 were built. The warhead fitted to the Mistel was of the hollow charge type. Such warheads were used a great deal during the war against tanks. But with the Mistel a hollow charge warhead weighing 7,700 pounds - far larger than any built before or since - was to be used. Below is an early Mistel 1 combination, with the hollow charge war- head fitted in place of the crew compartment of the Ju 88 lower component. This warhead, seen below on a Mistel 1, was capable of "drilling" a hole clean through the hull of even the most heavily armored warship. The 7,800 pound hollow-charge warhead, containing 3,800 pounds of explosive (70 per-cent hexogen and 30 per-cent TNT) Impact fused, arming took place about three seconds after separation, the six foot diameter warhead fitted to the Mistel lower component, gave a theoretical maximum penetration of the order of 24 feet. The definitive Mistel warhead was a very large shaped charge, of nearly two short tons in weight, fitted with a copper or aluminium liner, not unlike the warhead of the much smaller, anti-tank Panzerfaust weapon. The warhead was expected to have a penetration of up to 7 meters of reinforced concrete. Such a warhead would I penetrate the heaviest armor carried by a ship with ease. Once through the outer protective shell of the target, and now confined inside it, the jet of high energy metal would vaporize anything in its path.


    this picture is supposed to be a german warship maybe a battleship tested with large mistel shaped charge.

    Jean Bart was the second ship of the Courbet-class battleships, the first dreadnoughts built for the French Navy, she was renamed Océan, disarmed and hulked in 1936 and became a harbour training ship in Toulon. The Germans captured her intact when they occupied Toulon in 1942 and used her for testing large shaped charge warheads. here can be seen the effects of such weapon this is the battleship ocean used by the germans to test the mistel warhead Tests with the specially shaped charges showed that it could easily penetrate through any known armor materials. These were tested on an old French battleship that had its turret armor increased by several feet of thickness. The warhead not only penetrated all of that, but also another 50 feet of the ship!

  • #2
    I dont think a BB would be to happy about recieving one of those. Would the thermite keep burning and melt is way through the hull?

    Would be an awful mess at anyrate.

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    • #3
      I dunno, If I was the designer I would just be happy that it could lift off the ground with two props and weighing over 6,000 lbs for just the bomb itself. I cannot imagine it being very accurate weapon at all given its method of launch/dropping. Would make one hell of a car wash though when it goes off. I'm guessing it would have more shock transfer value in the water then airbourne accuracy.
      Last edited by Dreadnought; 30 Jun 10,, 13:21.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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      • #4
        Dread, I dont think the bomb gets dropped. I think that it goes in with the plane. That was my impression anyway. KAMAKAZE!

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        • #5
          Dread was only half wrong, the german Mistel was dropped from under the fighter like a bomb but the "Sakura-dan" was the guided by Kamikaze bomber pilots

          Another Kamikaze adaptation of the bomber. the Ki-67-I-KAI or To-Go Hiryu was essentially a ‘manned missile’ with a long rod projecting from the nose to serve as an impact trigger for the two 1,764 lb bombs carried, one internally and one externally, all unnecessary equipment was removed, blister, tail gun and the dorsal turret replaced by plywood fairings. To-Go Hiryus along with other Kamikaze aircraft were involved in damaging attacks on the US carrier force of the 5th Fleet mid-March of which the USS Franklin the Yorktown and Wasp were severely damaged, but there is no record of Peggys success, as they were most likely miss-identified as Bettys.

          The base plane; Ki-67 Hiryu (Flying Dragon) Peggy resembled a G4M Betty on a slimming diet the high-speed twin-engined heavy bomber had a level-flight top speed of 537 km/h/334 mph good maneuverability in high-speed dives (up to nearly 644 km/h/400 mph), excellent sustained rate of climb, and outstanding ability to turn (excellent turn rate, small turn radius, and ability to turn at low speeds). It was fitted with self-sealing fuel tanks and armor and was perhaps one of the most sturdy and damage-resistant Japanese aircraft of World War II, with a range of 3,800 km (2,050 nmi, 2,360 mi) and a bomb load of 1,070 kg (2,360 lb).

          If you take into account the standard 2,360 lb bomb load she would probably fly like a dog with a 3 ton bomb but they lightened her up alot and if they could remove enough weight the "Sakura-dan" Peggys would have been formidable foes had more than two put into service.
          Last edited by petsan; 01 Jul 10,, 17:18.

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          • #6
            Couple notes for the "Mistel":

            - the combination aircraft had a number of sorties against the D-Day invasion fleet, with at least one aircraft shot down near Caen by a RAF Mosquito
            - successful sorties were in the same operation flown against Courbet (a hulk dressed up as a decoy) and HMS Nith, a command ship; other ships supposedly sunk don't correlate with RN/USN archives.
            - in fall 1944, some 60 aircraft were gathered together in Denmark for a possible strike against the Royal Navy Home Fleet; attack was cancelled after Tirpitz was sunk and RN carriers regained control of the North Sea.
            - another long-distance strategic strike using these aircraft against Soviet industrial and infrastructure targets was planned and later cancelled due to the receding front line
            - the last sorties by these aircraft were against bridges across the Oder to slow Soviet advances
            - altogether, about 200 such combination aircraft were built

            On a side note, the project wasn't called "Mistel". A "Mistelgespann" (mistle tow) is simply the German term for the combination of two aircraft in such a manner.

            Comment


            • #7
              Petsan: GREAT pictures and an interesting theory. However the time for me to design resistance on a Battleship for such weapons is long past. They will never see combat again (unfortunately). I am more interested in saving them as museum/memorial ships that represented the Greatest Generation.

              Plus I have other responsibilities to take up my time.

              1: Spoiling my grandson rotten (bought a model train set for him even before he was born).

              2: Supporting my wife still recovering from shoulder replacement (I do the heavy lifting when we shop at COSTCO).

              3: Spoiling my grand daughter rotten.

              4: Now being Commander elect of my American Legion Post, I have a big agenda ahead of me in reistablishing communications, getting repairs done to the building, attending funerals and conventions, etc.

              5: Bought another model train set for my grandchildren

              6: As a board member of the Pacific Battleship Center I have to keep ship preservationists updated as to the right way and wrong way to fix or restore something (I provided the dry dock drawing that was needed for the Missouri last year).

              7: Dug our daughter's old tricycle out of the garage attic, totally disassmebled it, sanded, repaired and repainted it for my grandchildren.

              8: Trying to schedule a way to build new driveway gates that passersby cannot look through and tease our dogs (I have 4 sheets of 16 gauge galvanized steel that should do it).

              9: Winning my model train clubs big raffle I selected another model train for my grandchildren.

              10: Ummm. I forgot what's next. Hope I wrote it down somewhere. I think it has something to do with Vodka.
              Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                I dont think a BB would be to happy about recieving one of those. Would the thermite keep burning and melt is way through the hull?

                Would be an awful mess at anyrate.
                Both of these weapons appear to be shaped charges, I am confused about the use of thermite, which is something else (a mixture of iron oxide and aluminum powder which reacts to become high temperature molten iron). I wonder if this isn't an error on the part of the original author? Perhaps the fact that both can burn through armor lead to the use of the term thermite?

                The illustration seems to be a straight forward shaped charge which focuses a jet of hot gas (which included the super heated liner material, normally copper) which burns through armor. And I agree it would be an awful mess, but the spaced layers of protection of a modern battleship might be able to protect the magazines - but for such a monster of a shaped charge -- maybe not.
                Last edited by USSWisconsin; 02 Jul 10,, 14:38.
                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                  Petsan: GREAT pictures and an interesting theory. However the time for me to design resistance on a Battleship for such weapons is long past. They will never see combat again (unfortunately). I am more interested in saving them as museum/memorial ships that represented the Greatest Generation.

                  Plus I have other responsibilities to take up my time.

                  1: Spoiling my grandson rotten (bought a model train set for him even before he was born).

                  2: Supporting my wife still recovering from shoulder replacement (I do the heavy lifting when we shop at COSTCO).

                  3: Spoiling my grand daughter rotten.

                  4: Now being Commander elect of my American Legion Post, I have a big agenda ahead of me in reistablishing communications, getting repairs done to the building, attending funerals and conventions, etc.

                  5: Bought another model train set for my grandchildren

                  6: As a board member of the Pacific Battleship Center I have to keep ship preservationists updated as to the right way and wrong way to fix or restore something (I provided the dry dock drawing that was needed for the Missouri last year).

                  7: Dug our daughter's old tricycle out of the garage attic, totally disassmebled it, sanded, repaired and repainted it for my grandchildren.

                  8: Trying to schedule a way to build new driveway gates that passersby cannot look through and tease our dogs (I have 4 sheets of 16 gauge galvanized steel that should do it).

                  9: Winning my model train clubs big raffle I selected another model train for my grandchildren.

                  10: Ummm. I forgot what's next. Hope I wrote it down somewhere. I think it has something to do with Vodka.
                  Well, hell, what are you doing spending time with us? Get back to your grandkids and spoil them some. It's just like my nieces. The best part is that I get to give them back after I finish with them.
                  Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                  Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                    Dread, I dont think the bomb gets dropped. I think that it goes in with the plane. That was my impression anyway. KAMAKAZE!
                    Thats what I am seeing, the thing is on top of the plane, it doesn't appear to have a way to be released --and they send 4 men along with it - including a radio operator -- pretty mean --the psycological effect (in addition to the physical effect) would be pretty powerful if it were strike the target --but from what I gather it was not likely to make it there (being a large slow high value target itself).
                    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 02 Jul 10,, 15:06.
                    sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thermite could be used with a shaped charge (also thermite doesn't have to be iron). I was designing some hypothetical battleships and needed a hypothetical projectile to bore through and do great mischief --this one opens a hole with a big shaped charge, spits a couple self forging slugs through along with a spray of tungsten cubes -- then follows up with a splash of titanium thermite to keep things burning.;)
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by USSWisconsin; 03 Jul 10,, 13:20.
                      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                      Comment

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