Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

[bigross86]

How many Democracies would tolerate a PM doing something like that?

According to the newspaper on Friday the police are looking to arrest her just as soon as she gets anywhere near Israel, have her diplomatic immunity revoked and put on trial.

[bigross86]

Peace Activists, my ass

You can clearly see the paintball markers at 0:53 and at 0:58, and you can also clearly see soldiers being attacked with metal rods and chairs, and even one soldier being thrown over a railing. The video says he was thrown overboard, but I've seen reports that say the soldier was just dropped to a lower deck and knocked unconscious from hitting his head on the railing

[kato]

Israel had no problem letting these supplies in, just through the port of Ashdod or Ashkelon, not directly into Gaza.

They have to let them into a port in Gaza through after searching them. Unloading at an Israeli port is not an option under Article 103. The only option in that regard would be requiring them to distribute aid goods through a neutral humanitarian organisation like the ICRC, but we all know Israel's (and Palestine's) track record with that.

[kato]

The video says he was thrown overboard, but I've seen reports that say the soldier was just dropped to a lower deck and knocked unconscious from hitting his head on the railing

There's an Israeli news report (ynetnews iirc) that says he was dropped to a lower deck, followed by the commander of the Israeli unit allowing fire-at-will subsequently, of which the soldiers made ample use.

As for peace activism...

When they kick in your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun?

When the law breaks in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting on death row?

The guys on this ship are rather sedate for left-wing activists in my opinion.

[S2]

kato Reply

"The guys on this ship are rather sedate for left-wing activists in my opinion."

Are they PEACE ACTIVISTS or members of Baader-Meinhof?

"When they kick in your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun?

When the law breaks in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting on death row?"

Brits onboard from Brixton, eh?

[kato]

Are they PEACE ACTIVISTS or members of Baader-Meinhof?

Actually, i know plenty of people who like to quote Ulrike Meinhof. They're rather sedate too.

I rather prefer her comrade Gudrun Ensslin in the context here:

Tragic greatness always derives from a morbid break with health.

[S2]

kato Reply

"Tragic greatness always derives from a morbid break with health."

I'm sure that those who died onboard shall be forever held high and revered in the greater glory of their cause. Still, as combatant seamen, they sailed into harm's way and found both their defeat and demise.

Knowing what I know now, I'm more convinced than ever that the proper course of action was to warn those vessels of imminent sinking save prompt compliance of instructions to heave to and turn about...

...and then follow through once ignored.

Israel's establishment of a blockade would eventually require such. Clearly Khrushchev and Gorshkov understood that was ultimately what would happen when attempting to break America's blockade of Cuba. They wisely turned about. These provocative fools didn't.

I harbor no sympathy for their actions nor mourn their dead and applaud the clearly obvious restraint shown by the IDF. I, though, question the functional utility of their actions. Those commandos deserved greater consideration from their commanders.

I'm sure the children intentionally placed in harm's way would have been amply prepared to meet their maker-



So be it- every cause needs its soldiers-tragically great or simply useful fools.

[Big K]

kato,

they are more likely rightist from the worst part, the shepherds herd...

[kato]

Regarding military action per se:
I'm actually surprised the convoy didn't request an escort from OAE or MTF448 all the way to Israeli territorial waters. Would have been the proper way to do things. And it would have prevented any "incidents"... or "accidents" if a German, Italian or Turkish taskgroup of two or three frigates had escorted the units.

[Mihais]

What difference would have made?The boarding would have taken place inside the 12nm.The PR disaster would have been the same.
I didn't looked into details yet,but from I found so far they seem indeed a leftist bunch.

[zraver]

Then where are all the weapons coming from, I wonder? Are they breeding and making baby weapons? True, Hamas has the ability to manufacture unguided rockets and IED's, but they don't yet have the infrastructure or manufacturing capability to make AK-47's, RPG-7's, machine guns and other assorted goodies

Actually they can make RPG type weapons, they are not that sophisticated, same goes for mortars and basic unguided rockets. The AK's and light machine guns were provided by Israel to the PLA/PA as part of the self rule experiment after Olso.

We know Iran is arming and funding PoG and probably funding Hamas. But I don't see Iran getting much in the way of arms to them.

I am on Israel's side in this, while I don;t like the Gaza blockade, its a legal instrument. The flotilla declared it was going to Gaza and is ths a legal target unless otherwise excepted (hospital ship etc.)

[astralis]

BR,

is israeli media reporting why commandos vs a regular naval patrol was sent? moreover, why send commandos onto the ship when it's clear that they were not authorized use of force except as a last resort?

and again, why weren't the commandos equipped with riot control gear? the more i read about this the more i'm thinking the IDF really screwed up the ops planning-- opening its commandos up to either using deadly force or no force at all.

and now israel will pay on the international stage.

[Tronic]

Israel fell for the trap.. They should've waited for the ships to come inside Israeli waters, neutralized their propellers, towed them back out to international waters and left them there.

[S2]

astralis Reply

"...now israel will pay on the international stage."

Only among those pre-disposed to do so in any case.

What's evident to any dispassionate observer from the available footage-Israeli or otherwise-is a mob's intent upon doing battle to the full extent of their ability.

Of course Israel could have pre-emptively dropped CS canisters aboard. Of course they'd been thrown overboard as fast as they landed on the ship. Of course Israeli forces-commando or otherwise-could have fast-roped in with gasmasks on. This would have constrained their peripheral vision in tight quarters and rendered them even more vulnerable. Of course Israeli forces could have pre-emptively sprayed the deck with rubber bullets before landing. At that range, from the hovering helicopter, they'd been almost certainly lethal.

The intent was to land peacefully but with their best troops if not received peacefully. Those wouldn't have been, of course, ordinary seamen that often make up ad hoc contraband boarding parties ala the British search team captured by Iran which included a woman.

Some say Israel had nothing to gain by this action. IMV they had nothing to lose. The global reaction is utterly predictable from every quarter-moslem outrage, U.N. condemnation, U.S. circumspection. So?

Big deal. In a month this will be just another episode in a line so long I've forgotten where it started.

[Castellano]

Israel fell for the trap.. They should've waited for the ships to come inside Israeli waters, neutralized their propellers, towed them back out to international waters and left them there.

Thatīs it, IMO. If you are afraid of PR repercussions of pictures showing explosions while shooting at the propellers, just use some steel cables or whatever to wreck them.

Cīmon, somebody must know a way to disable those ships while avoiding casualties....

And as you said, rather than bring them ashore, take them to open sea, where the "activist" bringing "humanitarian aid" can whine all they want.


Looking at the bigger picture though, if I were Israel I would end this charade of a "blockade" once and for all - Israel keeps sending tons of food, materials, providing medical aid, etc...to people who want to annihilate their population.

WTF?

SEAL the damn border, just SEAL IT. No food, no materials, no goods of any kind, no transit of persons, no medical aid, no transit of donkeys. NOTHING. ZERO. NADA.

Just a thick mine field and surveillance all around it.


And DO NOT tell Egypt what it has to do with its border with Gaza, thatīs their business, and it is a mistake for Israel to meddle - but then make sure the World understands, using every Embassy, Consulate and media conference, that every single rocket randomly hitting Israelīs territory, will be met with overwhelming retaliation.


The rationale is that contrary to what many people across the political spectrum in Israel seem to think, THE DISENGAGEMENT HAS NOT FAILED - Donīt Israelis realize that the disengagement policy put the fear of God into their enemies?

Indeed it has, and with a good reason.