Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

[1979]

Yes, about 60km off of Israel. Israel territorial waters ends at the 12 mile/22 km mark

Clarification: The flotilla was in the Israeli Exclusive Economic Zone, a border extending 200km from the Israeli coast.

Part V, Article 55 of the Convention states:


If I'm reading this correctly, the EEZ is subject to the laws of the country, and therefore Israel was within it's rights to board the flotilla, since they were breaking the law with intent of running the blockade. In essence, they are glorified smugglers

I had the impression that the Exclusive Economic Zone was measured in nautical miles. :P

[bigross86]

Correct, my mistake. That just supports my claim even more. They were well within Israeli waters and Israel was within it's rights to board them

[Big K]

It should have, but like was written in the article I posted above, the Israeli's went in with the assumption that the protesters would put up normal and nominal resistance and planned accordingly. They used paintball guns to minimize collateral damage and only opened fire when fired upon and attacked with deadly weapons or when in mortal danger.

Once again, the same claim as before. For "peace activists", (which includes people with well known connections to Hamas) these people were very well prepared for a battle. Tactical blunder on the Israeli's side, yes, but they did everything possible to make sure no one got hurt.

i think theres a well organised trap.

[bigross86]

That's what it turned out to be. Like we said way in the beginning, this was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It's a tactical blunder that the IDF underestimated their opposition, but the ships had to be boarded, one way or the other

[Castellano]

That's what it turned out to be. Like we said way in the beginning, this was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It's a tactical blunder that the IDF underestimated their opposition, but the ships had to be boarded, one way or the other

Why not disable the propellers, then bring them to the coast, as you suggested before?

[codedvirus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE

What kind of Peace Activists are these people ? They are using all kind of equipments to kill the commandos.

[bigross86]

Why not disable the propellers, then bring them to the coast, as you suggested before?

Probably cause it would cause some injuries, is much less controlled than a takeover, and might even sink the ship itself.

What kind of Peace Activists are these people ? They are using all kind of equipments to kill the commandos.

I posted that video on page 2...

[astralis]

i'm waiting for a more complete readout, but i'm surprised the israelis didn't have tear gas or high-energy sound systems-- or as castellano said, just disable the boats and deal with them then.

either way, this is absolutely horrible, horrible PR for israel.

[bigross86]

San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea:

Article 67A clearly states:

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

I'd say they fit all four of those criteria. International waters is no longer an issue. Issues with how much force was used, yes, but not the location of the takeover.

[kato]

San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea:

Israel isn't a party to the San Remo Manual iirc, and therefore not entitled to its provisions.

In addition, there's always Article 103 of the Manual.

[S2]

kato Reply

"Israel isn't a party to the San Remo Manual iirc, and therefore not entitled to its provisions."

Neither are they constrained by them then.

[StevoJH]

I guess this just means that next time the Israeli Troops will go in with Riot guns permission to fire right from the start or Rifles rather then Paint ball markers.

This lot must have been pretty dumb to think they could get away without dying. Because somehow I don't think they would have done it if they thought they might end up dead.

[Castellano]

As we all know, this flotilla was organized by an assorted cast of radical "leftists" and Islamists who openly support HAMAS.

What better way to start a voyage than a round of rousing pro-terrorist and antisemitic chanting?

Intifada, intifada, intifada!

Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews! The army of Mohammed will return!


Video footage here:

Harry's Place Hamas Ahoy

Khayhar was the battle in 629 AD where Mahoma and his army slaughtered the Jews who lived in said Oasis killing thousands.

Battle of Khaybar (Islamic history) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia


It is the favorite antisemitic chant among Islamists for inciting the murder of Jews:

Harry's Place “Kill The Jews” Says Oxford ISOC Rep


By the way, several members of this flotilla are Arab-Israelis, among them the Israeli PM Haneen Zobi.

Hacia las “Aguas Internacionales” a defender el derecho de Gaza a disfrutar del mar Crónicas desde Gaza


How many Democracies would tolerate a PM doing something like that?


The proof the intent is to support HAMAS?

This is the fourth convoy organized by Viva Palestina (lead by George Galloway, open HAMAS, POG, Saddam Hussein & Ahmadineyad apologist, with a program in Press Tv - Iranian regime TV that among other barbaric stances negates the Shoah) and the Turkish Islamist organization IHH, which is the one which has basically organized this latest flotilla.

What happened in previous convoys is that they went directly to HAMAS with the collaboration of Islamists

Harry's Place Viva Palestina: A Convoy For Hamas

and anti-Semites

Harry's Place MCB Members at Beirut Terrorist Jamboree


where all the material and money was delivered to HAMAS


http://hurryupharry.org/wp-content/u...hh-haniyeh.pdf


so they can allocate it at will between the diffrerent branches:


Harry's Place Hamas PM Haniya, Hamas Military Wing Commander Al-Ja’bari Clash Over Distribution Of MP Galloway’s Aid Funds

As I said, IHH is an Islamist, pro-HAMAS, antisemitic Turkish group:

Harry's Place Viva Palestina, Mahathir and IHH

and

Harry's Place Shoot At Israel!


Moreover, as documented by the Danish Institute of International Studies:

http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publicat...2006-7.web.pdf

some of its militants were judged in Turkey in 1997 for possesion and smuggling of weapons, and it was discovered that the detainees were readying for combat in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Chechenia. Later the anti-terrorist judge Jean-Louis Bruguiere concluded that the IHH´s president Bulent Yildrim had conspired in the mid 90´s to "recruit soldiers and veterans for the coming Jihad". An investigation of communication´s logs showed repeted phone calls to Al-Qaeda members in Milan and to Abu al- Ma`ali, which was subsequently called by US officials as "Osama Bin Laden junior". In a later judicial procedure at Seattle for the attempted terrorist attack at LA Airport, the prosecutor cited Bruguiere as an expert witness. Bruguiere declared that the IHH had played an important role in the plot.

[bigross86]

Israel isn't a party to the San Remo Manual iirc, and therefore not entitled to its provisions.

In addition, there's always Article 103 of the Manual.

What's the problem? Israel has been allowing plenty of foodstuffs in. Not only that, read Article 103:

103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:
(a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and
(b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.

If they want free transit, Israel has the right to search the vessels, as stipulated in section (a). Israel had no problem letting these supplies in, just through the port of Ashdod or Ashkelon, not directly into Gaza. Free Gaza was not willing to submit to section (a) or (b), and are therefore do not fall under Article 103's protection.

[bigross86]

I just watched the news and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman's statement. I'm really sad to say that we have an idiot for a Foreign Minister. One of the first things out of his mouth: We did it in international waters before with Karine A and nobody had a problem, so we figured we'd do it again. Nothing about San Remo or the EEZ, both of which give some semblance of legality to doing it where they did.

I guess according to him two wrongs do make a right. With idiots like him no wonder we're losing the PR war...