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  • #16
    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
    So your stating that things in the ME will get better if Iran obtains a nuclear weapon?
    I stated, that the US was asking others namely Turkey to pay the bill for these noneffective sanctions.
    And I don't think the ME would change for the worst if Iran would be allowed to use nuclear energy as the NPT allows it.
    I actually think Iran would stop with the harsh rhetoric against Israel and Israel would not be that eager to start wars in the ME.

    Perhaps you may want to help them rebuild Iran after Israel flattens it after getting tired of the threats and the mantra.
    Israel doesn't have the capability to flatten Iran or its Nuclear Installations, if they did, they already would have flattened them. The only thing that Israel can do is to attack Iran and hope that the US will intervene in order to stop Iran from shutting down the Strait of Hormuz.

    Your country and Brazil got suckered by a vile regime that wouldnt care about flattening your country either if it stood in the way of its nuclear program.
    My country is protecting its interests.

    You will see how bad of and idea it was to agree with them as time carries on.;)
    Is this a threat?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
      Israel has nukes? Really? Where did you get that information from?
      Iran has nukes, or is going to get some, where did you get that info?


      With their ICBM capabilities a nuke capable Iran does not bode well for most of the world.
      I don't see it that way.

      If you ask me, as soon as one nuke goes off,
      That wont happen, because of the second part of your statement.;)

      there will be a chain reaction that nobody will be happy with.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
        *A major point you are missing friend...Turkey also doesnt threaten its neighbors with destruction based upon warped religious interpitations of the Islamic Religion. Another point is how many terror groups does Turkey fund arm and train, Not many if at all to my knowldege while Iran funds many in several countries and it has been proven time and time again.
        Look, Iran and Syria also supported at some point the PKK but we have excellent relations with both of them now. As you can see there are other options to deal with the so called evil axis than to isolate them or bomb them to the stone age. Diplomacy can work, if it is honest and takes the (security) interests of your opponent into account.

        We understand trade is a major factor with Turkey and Iran, but allowing them such a weapon will not happen. Iran would start a war with its rhetoric and threats and more then likely it would be the first weapon they choose to threaten another with.
        You have the assumption that the Iranian regime is irrational, I do not share this assumption, in my opinion they are as rational as every other regime in the world.

        Not going to happen. Wether Turkey dislikes the US and NATO or not. Not going to happen.
        For us, its NOT about likes or dislikes -Iran is probably or oldest rival in the region- its about interests.

        Trade or no trade we dont care,
        Of course you don't, it's not your trade that is going to get hurt, is it.

        Iran will get its weapons program shut down one way or another.
        The sanctions wont deliver this, even air strikes wont do the deed, only a war with regime change would probably stop Iran from getting the nuclear capability. And I don't think the US has the political will to do that. In my opinion, this sanctions are useless and are only implemented to stop Israel from dragging the US in another war in the region, which they don't want just yet.

        Iran enrichens to 20% as it has already stated. Thats weapons grade not Medical grade as they claim.
        Weapns grade is beyond 80%, if I'm not mistaken.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Hitman817 View Post
          Iran has nukes, or is going to get some, where did you get that info?
          In 2006 Ahmadinejad stated that "Iran has joined the group of those countries which have nuclear technology". He also repeatedly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you add 1+1?

          I don't see it that way.
          How much stock do you put in Muslim Fundamentalism? A theocratic country that is run by a quorum of clergymen repeatedly calling for a Holy War against most of the world, which includes using everyone in their country as soldiers. Do you really think they will refrain from launching if whipped into enough of a religious fervor? I wonder where Allah is going to get enough virgins to fill the demand.

          That wont happen, because of the second part of your statement.;)
          To someone who believes that he's going to heaven anyway, and the more he kills the better, the more nukes go off the merrier.

          I've been on the receiving end of these Fundamentalist idiots, more than once. We had a Hamas guy with a knife and Molotov cocktail surrounded by 4 guys, and by law we could have shot him dead right there. We decided to bring him in and he threw the Molotov and tried stabbing my mate before we hit him with a rubber bullet and got him down.

          These assholes have nothing to lose and everything to gain, at least in their twisted minds. I ask again, you really think they care how many people die with them?

          Weapns grade is beyond 80%, if I'm not mistaken.
          IIRC, for normal nuclear functions you don't even need to get to 20%. Light Enriched Uranium for electricity is up to 19.2% or something like that. For anything heavier than that, yeah, it's the beginning of a weapons program
          Last edited by bigross86; 20 May 10,, 16:10.
          Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

          Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

          Comment


          • #20
            You have the assumption that the Iranian regime is irrational, I do not share this assumption, in my opinion they are as rational as every other regime in the world.

            So threatening other countries and funding state sponsored terrorism is rational? What the hell kind of world do you live in? Certainly not a rational one judging by the above statement.

            *So you are assuming that the US, British,French and Russia, China and Germany are all "assuming"? Would that be the reason they all aggreed on the sanctions on the Republican Guard?

            Me thinks not.

            Would you also call Irans involvement with North Korea (another cladestine program operator) and Syria on the reactor that Israel destroyed an assumption as well? Tests showed the isotope sample taken were of North Korea origin. The program was funded by Iran.

            For us, its NOT about likes or dislikes -Iran is probably or oldest rival in the region- its about interests.

            Yep, thats correct, but it just so happens its not in many countries interests (shall we name them) for a radical theocratic regime to have such a weapons capability given their track record of twisting religion and supporting terrorist groups. Several of their own people defected including scientists and even a General in the Republican Guard.

            Could they be wrong as well having first hand knowledge?

            Of course you don't, it's not your trade that is going to get hurt, is it.

            *And its not your country being targeted either is it?;)

            Which would you choose if the shoe was on the other foot.

            Im sure you country can find more trade then just Iran and Syria if it tried.


            The sanctions wont deliver this, even air strikes wont do the deed, only a war with regime change would probably stop Iran from getting the nuclear capability. And I don't think the US has the political will to do that. In my opinion, this sanctions are useless and are only implemented to stop Israel from dragging the US in another war in the region, which they don't want just yet.


            *Sanctions are meant to slowly strangle the regimes trouble making capabilities, If you choose to believe they dont work then just ask North Korea and see how crippling some of theose sanctions actually are.

            You seem to forget ALL of the major powers agreed on them so if it did come to a war and hopefully it wont, guess whos going to be on the loosing end of it?

            Will Turkey or Syria come running to Irans aid? I doubt it if conflict opens. So trade wont matter much at that point now will it?

            Weapns grade is beyond 80%, if I'm not mistaken

            Weapons grade can be considered 20% and above. A true Nuclear warhead requires 85-90% enrichment. You can still build a conventional bomb utilizing 20% or above. With their ties to Hamas, Hezbollah and others do you really think the civilized world will take that chance? NOT!;)
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

            Comment


            • #21
              Iran agreed to ship all of her 1200 kg of 3.5% LEU to Turkey to be exchanged with 20% EU which Iran claims it is urgently needed for Tehran Reactor to produce medical isotope. I would like to know:
              Who will be the party providing the 20% fuel?

              Does the offer from US still stand?

              Comment


              • #22
                You have the assumption that the Iranian regime is irrational, I do not share this assumption, in my opinion they are as rational as every other regime in the world.


                *Hmm, and Saddams regime was rational as well correct? He kept screwing with weapons inspectors and beating his chest and what happened?

                He brought a country and a people to war. All for being an asshole instead of a leader. Was this rational as well?
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Aryajet View Post
                  Iran agreed to ship all of her 1200 kg of 3.5% LEU to Turkey to be exchanged with 20% EU which Iran claims it is urgently needed for Tehran Reactor to produce medical isotope. I would like to know:
                  Who will be the party providing the 20% fuel?

                  Does the offer from US still stand?
                  *Not sure Aryjet. I believe at 20% it becomes HEU instead of LEU.
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                    In 2006 Ahmadinejad stated that "Iran has joined the group of those countries which have nuclear technology". He also repeatedly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you add 1+1?
                    From an objective point of view, Iran and Israel are threatening each other. But that was not my point, I made my comment in reference to your comment that there was no proof of Israels Nukes, which is an open secret, since an Israeli disclosed it and is now sitting under house arrest in Israel.


                    How much stock do you put in Muslim Fundamentalism?
                    Not more or less then to Christian or Jewish Fundamentalism. In other word if I can live with Liberman, I can also live with Ahmeddinechad.

                    calling for a Holy War against most of the world
                    Source?

                    Do you really think they will refrain from launching if whipped into enough of a religious fervor?
                    As I stated, I consider the Iranian regime as a rational one, rhetorics is just that rhetorics.

                    These assholes have nothing to lose and everything to gain, at least in their twisted minds. I ask again, you really think they care how many people die with them?
                    That might be true for the Palestinians but not for Iranians, unlike Palestinians they have much to lose. I know a couple Iranians and they are everything else but religious nutjobs.

                    IIRC, for normal nuclear functions you don't even need to get to 20%. Light Enriched Uranium for electricity is up to 19.2% or something like that. For anything heavier than that, yeah, it's the beginning of a weapons program
                    20% is for medical purposes necessary and cannot be used to build a bomb.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Is this a threat?

                      Nope, our countries dont have a problem with Turkey or Brazil. In a certain way though you could consider it a promise though as sanctions will grow and sooner or later it will effect the trade end of Iran if it continues to warrant sanctions. Only the future will tell.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Dread

                        Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                        *Not sure Aryjet. I believe at 20% it becomes HEU instead of LEU.
                        I did not consider 20% LEU and surely it is far less enriched than 80%, that was the reason I thought I can get away with EU.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          So threatening other countries and funding state sponsored terrorism is rational? What the hell kind of world do you live in? Certainly not a rational one judging by the above statement.
                          Be objektive for once, the US and also Israel is also threatening Iran, even the new US-Nuclear doctrine states that they might use Nukes as a first strike and the Israeli Press is also full of such assumptions.
                          It seems to me that threats are used on both sides extensively and if you are in Iran's position it can be quite rational to appear irrational.

                          In my opinion they will change their rhetorics as soon es they reach the nuclear capability and feel safe.

                          *So you are assuming that the US, British,French and Russia, China and Germany are all "assuming"? Would that be the reason they all aggreed on the sanctions on the Republican Guard?
                          Look, I've been following this for a while now, and China and Russia are not afraid of Iran. China has been against any sanctions but they need access to the US market and the Obama regime has threatened to introduce customs to Chinese Products and they changed their opinion about Iran and as for Russia I'm sure that they were also paid off by the US somehow.

                          Would you also call Irans involvement with North Korea (another cladestine program operator) and Syria on the reactor that Israel destroyed an assumption as well? Tests showed the isotope sample taken were of North Korea origin. The program was funded by Iran.
                          They are working together, that's not a secret, I just fail to see the relevance to my statement.

                          Yep, thats correct, but it just so happens its not in many countries interests
                          you have different interests, I accept that.



                          Im sure you country can find more trade then just Iran and Syria if it tried.
                          Where, we are already too dependent from Europe and Russia, we need to diversify, aside from trade we get 30% of our energy supply from Iran 70% from Russia. There is no way we can compensate for that without getting totally dependent from Russia.



                          *Sanctions are meant to slowly strangle the regimes trouble making capabilities, If you choose to believe they dont work then just ask North Korea and see how crippling some of theose sanctions actually are.
                          North Korea is communist regime, their backwardness is related to that not to sanctions, Iran is not.

                          Will Turkey or Syria come running to Irans aid? I doubt it if conflict opens. So trade wont matter much at that point now will it?
                          If you are going to attack Iran, do it and do it fast.
                          We are not going to support sanctions that will go for decades and hurt our interests indefinitely.

                          Weapons grade can be considered 20% and above. A true Nuclear warhead requires 85-90% enrichment. You can still build a conventional bomb utilizing 20% or above. With their ties to Hamas, Hezbollah and others do you really think the civilized world will take that chance? NOT!;)
                          Now that would be quite stupid of Iran, wouldn't it?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Hitman817 View Post
                            Sorry Mrs Clinton, but you shouldn't expect us to pay the bill for your paranoia about Iran's nuclear program.
                            Turkey is not flipping no bills, this is working to their advantage and as you said yourself, the sanctions don’t do anything so there is no bill to flip. Turks are increasing their influence in the ME while they put pressure/punishing the EU and the West for not getting a free ride into the EU (with most Turks against it anyway). With Israel canceling military cooperation, Turkey knows how to get back. This is one place that I agree with Turks but I was sure US would support this deal….I don’t know why US not happy, it is a move in the right direction you would think.

                            It is amazing how people think Iranians are like Arabs or they are religious nuts or something….big mistake. Even them freaking Mullahs will out-manouver most seasoned politicians, don't look at them like that, most are highly educated.
                            BTW, you need to enrich to 90% before you can have weapons grade as far as I know and Iran is long way from that.
                            Wolf Hunter

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Hitman817 View Post
                              Who is goin to suffer from sanctions against Iran, certainly not the US or Israel....,
                              what has Israel got to do with anything here? You are exposing yourself.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Be objektive for once, the US and also Israel is also threatening Iran, even the new US-Nuclear doctrine states that they might use Nukes as a first strike and the Israeli Press is also full of such assumptions.
                                It seems to me that threats are used on both sides extensively and if you are in Iran's position it can be quite rational to appear irrational.

                                *They only begun threatening Iran after Iran has threatened them, time and time again, and both countries are about sick of Irans lackies ie: Hezbollah and Hamas as well as funding and training insurgents to Iraq that kill NATO forces. They continue to do this and if it all comes apart they will certainly pay for it no matter what threats they give, they will get hammered hard.

                                Look, I've been following this for a while now, and China and Russia are not afraid of Iran. China has been against any sanctions but they need access to the US market and the Obama regime has threatened to introduce customs to Chinese Products and they changed their opinion about Iran and as for Russia I'm sure that they were also paid off by the US somehow.

                                *They're not afraid because they have been arming them for years, a very lucritive market. And we have all been following this for a very long time.

                                They are working together, that's not a secret, I just fail to see the relevance to my statement.

                                *Well permit me then, heres you relevance: Both signatures of the NPT, BOTH breaking NPT protocol and BOTH threatening other countries with destruction. Is that enough?

                                you have different interests, I accept that

                                *Keeping the ME free of a nuclear arms race is in all interests not just ours. Its certainly in your countries interests as well as any strike on Iran will no doubt cause fallout in Turkey.

                                Where, we are already too dependent from Europe and Russia, we need to diversify, aside from trade we get 30% of our energy supply from Iran 70% from Russia. There is no way we can compensate for that without getting totally dependent from Russia.

                                *Neither of the two are the only ones with oil or natural gas in the ME. You have Iraq, Saudis etc. Will your country do this forever or will they invest in other sources of energy for their future?

                                North Korea is communist regime, their backwardness is related to that not to sanctions, Iran is not.

                                *Sanctions are what is starving the weapons sales, imports and more. Backward they are but the sanctions are not only depriving them of basics but also of luxury for Kims commanders and himself. Its well known. China and prior SK were the only ones feeding them food and fuel. Without the two over time the regime will collapse and China dont want that to happen thus they get flooded with refugees which they certainly dont want.

                                If you are going to attack Iran, do it and do it fast.
                                We are not going to support sanctions that will go for decades and hurt our interests indefinitely.

                                *Thats not our call, thats the Iranian regimes call, but bleed them through sanctions and other ways we will.

                                Now that would be quite stupid of Iran, wouldn't it?

                                *Very, but judging by their actions against their own people, Israel, the West, NPT and their continued support of terrorists and insurgents have led all countries to believe their leadership not to be the brightest either. If they get attacked it will be their own fault no matter how much they cry foul.
                                Last edited by Dreadnought; 20 May 10,, 18:47.
                                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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