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  • #16
    Gun Grape:
    You're hopeless. I spent 39 years of my life at the Long Beach Naval Shipyard starting off as a shipfitter apprentice in 1954 and retiring as a GS-11 Naval Architecture Technician (was temporarily a GS-12 when we were modernizing the Battleships).

    With the exception of Submarines I have worked on almost every class of ship in the US Navy (and a couple of foreign ships) starting with landing craft on up to the Iowas and Forrestal class Aircraft Carriers. Hmmm, forgot about the Iranian assault boat we captured. Did some upgrading of that piece of fiberglass cr*p too.

    Modernizing the Battleships was hard enough. To put them back into WW II configuration is IMPOSSIBLE. As a matter of fact, in some cases it would be illegal such as the Galley equipment of those days do not meet today's sanitation standards. Even in modernization we had to replace each galley AND mess decks with all new equipment, tables, etc.

    Also, taking off the armor plate we put over the four secondary mounts we removed CANNOT be done with an Oxy-Acetylene torch. It won't cut STAINLESS STEEL WELD.

    And where are you going to find enough 40 mm and 20 mm AA guns anymore? Plus we cut all their gun tubs off with the exception of the two stern tubs where one has been modified to hold a jettisonable 500 gallan fuel bladder for the RPV's. We used all of their old ammo hoists as armored cable and piping trunks.

    You want to take off the flight deck also? Strip off the 1 1/2" thick armor we put on for CEC and turn it back into Flag Quarters? Rip off the tripod mast and put in a telescoping pole mast (to clear the Brooklyn Bridge)? Remove all the 1" thick armored bulkheads and overheads and vent ducts for the Comm Center and change it back to crew quarters with racks? Take out the CHT tanks that are required for holding brown water waste if shore connection is lost (strictly illegal)?

    You obviously don't know the first thing about these ships (or any ship for that matter) and all the effort put in to building them to begin with and the extraordinary effort to modernize them to help bring the Cold War to an end.

    As for a back up plan, don't ask as we won't tell. "LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS".

    As for Missouri being in worse shape than Iowa, where the hell did you hear that? I personally inspected the ship for the Hawaii group before she was towed out of Bremerton. I have also personally inspected the Iowa in 2004 and she is missing four Armored Box Launchers and one Lube Oil pump. (Sorry, not allowed to mention Turret II except for what I wrote in my book).

    Now, I buy the cheapest 80 proof Vodka I can find. However, I think you are in dire need of upgrading the brand of whatever it is you are drinking. And don't tell me a Marine doesn't drink (as I know us ex-tank drivers and sledge hammer mechanics do).
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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    • #17
      Rusty
      Reread what I wrote.

      I didn't say anything about reconfiguring the galleys, reverting CICs to crews quarters, ect. SO I'm not sure where your rant is coming from.

      Using the 5/38 mounts from Iowa, to be put in the proper place. Even if just surface mounted. I'm not wanting these areas to be open for tours. She represents the closing of WW2. I think she should look like she did back then.
      The old mast would be nice, with a fabricated replica of period radars. On the mast and the gun directors. Same with the 20 and 40mm guns. They don't ALL have to be real. 1 example of each type mount using real gear. The rest let some hollywood special effects team build replicas.

      But yes, tear up the flight deck.

      I have no idea where this remark came from. Never said one was in better condition than the other. Only that it would be better, IMO to use the 4th ship as a spare parts ship. There are bound to be things that the other 3 ships would like to have off her to bring their Material Condition up.

      Originally posted by RB
      As for Missouri being in worse shape than Iowa, where the hell did you hear that? I personally inspected the ship for the Hawaii group before she was towed out of Bremerton. I have also personally inspected the Iowa in 2004 and she is missing four Armored Box Launchers and one Lube Oil pump. (Sorry, not allowed to mention Turret II except for what I wrote in my book).
      Last edited by Gun Grape; 17 May 10,, 04:18.

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      • #18
        But they don't NEED any spare parts. What they need (as well as any other memorial ship) is greater dehumidification control so they can open more spaces for tours and keep maintenance down.

        If you want to look at a WW II era Battleship, just drive up the coast to visit the North Carolina and/or the Massachuessetts. Or drive along the Gulf Coast and visit the Alabama and the Texas (that also served in WW I).

        You only need spare parts if you want to reactivate the ship and "visit" Somalia. At this time, the Navy restricts the museums from reactivating any of the propulsion machinery, navigational equipment or the galleys.

        Interesting though, by ommission that means you could reactivate the guns. But the ammo can't be found in our local gun shops (I'm having a hard enough time trying to find .45 Long Colt).

        Leave the Missouri the way she is. That's the way she looked when the Iraqi's first "heard" from her and that's the way I want to keep her.
        Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
          If you want to look at a WW II era Battleship, just drive up the coast to visit the North Carolina and/or the Massachuessetts. Or drive along the Gulf Coast and visit the Alabama and the Texas (that also served in WW I).

          You only need spare parts if you want to reactivate the ship and "visit" Somalia. At this time, the Navy restricts the museums from reactivating any of the propulsion machinery, navigational equipment or the galleys.

          Interesting though, by ommission that means you could reactivate the guns. But the ammo can't be found in our local gun shops (I'm having a hard enough time trying to find .45 Long Colt).

          Leave the Missouri the way she is. That's the way she looked when the Iraqi's first "heard" from her and that's the way I want to keep her.
          I think the Mo should look like her WW2 incarnation because thats when the most historical significant thing on an Iowa class happened aboard her. And it ties in with Arizona as a memorial to WW2. Thats her claim to fame. Make her look the part.

          As for "Looking at Ww2 BBs" the ones mentioned were not the ships used for the surrender of Japan. Missouri was.


          The other ones are in their Iraq outfit.

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          • #20
            I can't imagine any of the four missing any equipment that the other might need. Where would it have gone if it was taken off? Couldn't have gone to one of the sister ships being that they were probably in the exact same filled out condition. They were not like the Hornet where important components in two boiler rooms were removed to keep the Lexington running at the time. She was decommissioned, never to sail again, and the Lexington was a running training ship. As for fabrication that is a pipe dream. Why? Money pure and simple. The only museum with the funds to spend on non-essential items is the Midway. By the time any other museum pays for all the preliminary costs, monthly costs, long term costs (teak decking and dry dock for Iowa) they would be lucky to have .02 cents left to rub together.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
              As for "Looking at Ww2 BBs" the ones mentioned were not the ships used for the surrender of Japan. Missouri was.
              Check your WW II history. Iowa was there also in Tokyo Bay.
              Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                I can't imagine any of the four missing any equipment that the other might need. Where would it have gone if it was taken off? Couldn't have gone to one of the sister ships being that they were probably in the exact same filled out condition. They were not like the Hornet where important components in two boiler rooms were removed to keep the Lexington running at the time. She was decommissioned, never to sail again, and the Lexington was a running training ship. As for fabrication that is a pipe dream. Why? Money pure and simple. The only museum with the funds to spend on non-essential items is the Midway. By the time any other museum pays for all the preliminary costs, monthly costs, long term costs (teak decking and dry dock for Iowa) they would be lucky to have .02 cents left to rub together.
                Ah! Somebody who knows what he is talking about.

                It is true that the other three Iowa class BB's still have all eight ABL's on board. Why four were removed from Iowa amidships is still a mystery to me. But I think they may have been installed on a couple of Spruance class Destroyers.

                The reason I assume that is that I did some design work on the USS Merrill (DD-976) for the first two launchers for testing. Merrill was a test ship for a number of things including a 30 mm Goal Keeper (I still have some of the casings I picked up off the deck).

                I wasn't aware of any other Spruances getting ABL's until a few months ago a web site showed one of them being sunk for Sinkex --- with two ABL's on board.

                As for "stripping" items off for decommissioning, think of the Midway. There was a horrible problem when blisters were added to increase freeboard. This was done on another Carrier and they worked well. But the Midway design was screwed up and the ship rolled faster than before making landings extremely dangerous. So when she was decommissioned and sent to Bremerton, the Navy ordered the rudders to be permantly removed so she could never be put to sea again under her own power.

                The removal method ordered was fast and both rudders came off at the same time --- with high explosives.

                Oh, and for general interest; when we brought the Missouri down for modernization I deliberately modified the removal drawings of the 40 mm gun mounts on turrets II and III to be done in one piece for future museums. My boss didn't think it was proper to say that on an official drawing, but his feelings were the same as mine and let it go by.

                Thankfully, it worked. The 40 mm mount off of turret II was shipped back up to Bremerton, restored and put on display. The mount off of turret III is a few miles north of me on Rosemead Blvd at the north end of the Whittier Narrows Recreation Area in the Los Angeles Historical Military Museum lot. It's sitting in weeds, but it's there hiding behind a bunch of tanks (mostly M-4 Shermans).

                We have some long range plans for Iowa as you say most museums could not do everything in the first stage. The most expensive item topside is to reassemble the mast. Dry Docking is another matter as our great Morreel Dry Dock 1 at the former LBNSY has been filled in. But NASSCO near San Diego they have a floating Dock big enough as they put the Midway in it for the hull preservation work. There is also one up in the San Francisco Bay area large enough and the company that owns it did the Dry Dock work on the Missouri last year.
                Attached Files
                Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                • #23
                  Just as a sign off note, I've gotten tired of this argument. I have more important things to think about and was planning to go up to Oregon at the end of this month to inspect some acreage up for auction attached to some we already own (actually gave it to our daughter and son-in-law as a wedding gift). But the weather reports indicate black ice in the way north of Klamath Falls, possible snow in the area of the land.

                  I was to be their pathfinder and trail blazer. But with those weather conditions and Snake Creek (that flows through some of our land) is notorious for washing out the road. I would only make the trip in an M-59 APC and I haven't seen any for sale on Craig's List.

                  So, I'm not going to respond to any more comments or arguments.

                  Oh, I will say one more thing to Gun Grape. When we get the Iowa ready for tours, take a trip out here and I will personally give you the grand tours (and even some off-road tours) myself. Then we will retire to the local VFW post and quaff a few.
                  Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post

                    Oh, I will say one more thing to Gun Grape. When we get the Iowa ready for tours, take a trip out here and I will personally give you the grand tours (and even some off-road tours) myself. Then we will retire to the local VFW post and quaff a few.
                    Can I also take you up on that offer, if and when I make it back to the States?
                    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                    • #25
                      Man, you leave for a weeekend and the whole dam thread goes to pot!:))

                      And just think, I had nothing to do with it.;)

                      Oh, I will say one more thing to Gun Grape. When we get the Iowa ready for tours, take a trip out here and I will personally give you the grand tours (and even some off-road tours) myself. Then we will retire to the local VFW post and quaff a few.

                      *I would like to think perhaps if I say pretty please I can make that guest list? Its been a real long time since I stepped aboard Iowa.:))
                      Last edited by Dreadnought; 17 May 10,, 13:56.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                      • #26
                        Phalanx was removed from Iowa and Wisconsin, New Jersey as well but were reinstalled after she was berthed in Camden.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ytlas
                          Maybe cRusty can arrange a WABbit Tour date..... Bring your half-pint of Vodka in brown paper bag.
                          Oh hell no, I gave up drinking the hard stuff in my 20's. Just beer these days and perhaps wine with dinner.:)
                          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Spence580 View Post
                            Phalanx was removed from Iowa and Wisconsin, New Jersey as well but were reinstalled after she was berthed in Camden.
                            *You mean before she was berthed (as in pierside). And yes she does have all four stations aboard. These Phalanx stations are also ten years newer (1994) then her originals (1983). All donated by General Dynamics.
                            Last edited by Dreadnought; 17 May 10,, 15:17.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I hope the Phalanx stations will be added to Wisconsin at some point, as they would bring back some of the awesomeness of the last configuration of a very impressive and historic ship.

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                              • #30
                                You are all invited and I will give all of you personal tours.

                                Er, by the way, alcoholic beverages won't be allowed aboard the ship. But we can make up for that later in the afternoon/evening/night/next daybreak.
                                Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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