Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

From WikiLeaks, Collateral Murder

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
    Zraver posted before that according to the Geneva Convention "There is no uniform requirement, those people should have been protected."
    No I did not, do you need reading classes?


    UN Convention (I)
    for the Amelioration
    of the Condition of
    the Wounded and Sick
    in Armed Forces in the Field

    Entered into effect after G4

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by gunnut View Post
      I hope you don't have to be in a situation where you have to make split second decisions that could result in life and death. You probably will make the wrong call and get yourself killed.
      Been there. I do get that. I also know that at no time were they in that situation. There were no bullets fired but they said there were. That's so that they have it on tape and can kill people even thought it's not true.

      One of the helicopter crew is then heard saying that one of the group is shooting. But the video shows there is no shooting or even pointing of weapons. The men are standing around, apparently unperturbed.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
        We DO have troops on the streets in America more and more. If I came around the corner and saw people lying bleeding everywhere I'd stop and help. This guy would kill me for it. I fear him.
        Wait...we have troops on the streets in America? Where?

        If you stop by to help someone bleeding, these "troops" would kill you for it? Why?
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
          Wait...we have troops on the streets in America? Where?

          If you stop by to help someone bleeding, these "troops" would kill you for it? Why?
          Katrina, a couple of other places they declared little emergencies.


          I don't know why man.... I dunno. They killed this guy though.

          When Saeed is crawling, clearly unable to do anything, their response is: come on buddy, we want to kill you, just pick up a weapon ... It appears to be a desire to get a higher score, or a higher number of kills."
          I'm afraid this is the best I can do. I'd like to believe it is not so.
          Last edited by Roycerson; 07 Apr 10,, 01:25.

          Comment


          • #80
            Roycerson Reply

            "I served enough to know that active duty soldiers don't give a damn about Iraqis innocent or not and would rather see the whole place nuked. I served enough to know this wasn't self-defense it was soldiers killing people because they could..."

            An airforce weather observer can make this wholesale blanket observation?

            "...that's what soldiers do, they like it"

            Your explanation doesn't fit with the actions of those hard-charging infantrymen who arrived on the scene. Why didn't they just whack the remaining wounded?

            You bring an agenda that's was skewed from the get-go if you believe the above nonsense. I wasn't a bit wrong about you.
            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
              I served enough to know this wasn't self-defense it was soldiers killing people because they could, that's what soldiers do, they like it.
              Lemme tell you something, and I hope to God you pay attention: Soldiers to not enjoy killing. Yes, some of them do, and that is a psychological issue more than anything else, but to make a sweeping generalization like that about all soldiers, especially coming from someone who served? I'm disappointed.

              I've had the chance to take lives when I was in service. I shot 2 suspected Hezbollah members sitting in an apartment in a village in Lebanon, 1,580 meters away from me. They had no idea I was there. Why do I say suspected? Because the innocent civilians had abandoned that village weeks before. Whoever stayed around had a damn good reason to be there. Moreover, we had been fired upon from that direction numerous times throughout the day. The fact that they were both up at 3:30AM didn't help their case, either.

              So I shot them with my main gun and killed them both.

              Did I enjoy it? No. Did I laugh at their death? No. Does it bother me at all? No. It was a plain and simple case of them or myself and my friends. I chose myself and my friends.

              I don't know if you served in Iraq or Afghanistan or where you served, but yours is not the mentality of one who has seen combat. For those in Iraq and Afghanistan, they can never tell who's got a bomb and who's got a grenade and who's got a pistol hidden under their clothes. So that's exactly what this was: Self Defense. Weapons were seen and identified, and then aimed at the Apache. Do you think for even a second that if the guy with the RPG had a shot he wouldn't have taken it?
              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                No I did not, do you need reading classes?


                UN Convention (I)
                for the Amelioration
                of the Condition of
                the Wounded and Sick
                in Armed Forces in the Field

                Entered into effect after G4
                I'm sorry, I didn't notice that, my mistake. I was quoting from the same document, however. I must have identified it wrong, even though it was also signed in Geneva in 1949. You quoted Article 24. I quoted articles 39-42 of the same document which do specify a uniform requirement

                UN Convention on the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces (I)
                Last edited by bigross86; 07 Apr 10,, 01:32.
                Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                  Katrina, a couple of other places they declared little emergencies.
                  Were they armed? Were they national guardsmen or regular military? Did these "troops" kill anyone during Katrina emergency?

                  Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                  I don't know why man.... I dunno. They killed this guy though.
                  So our soldiers in Iraq, killing alleged insurgents, led you to believe that they will kill you if you were in the process of helping your fellow American citizens during an emergency?

                  Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                  I'm afraid this is the best I can do.
                  That's because you are reaching, desperately trying to justify your view of American soldiers as murders.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Had the chance?

                    I "had the chance" once to ride a Hayabusa and it was AWESOME!

                    I've never been forced to kill anyone. I had to run from someone once and another time I had to shut my door before the guy could get the gun through it. "Had the chance" is the last phrase that would come to mind describing those situations. Maybe cuz I didn't kill anyone.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                      Were they armed? Were they national guardsmen or regular military? Did these "troops" kill anyone during Katrina emergency?

                      So our soldiers in Iraq, killing alleged insurgents, led you to believe that they will kill you if you were in the process of helping your fellow American citizens during an emergency?
                      1) depends on if you count forcing them into the superdome against their will and not letting them leave and stopping the wal-mart trucks full of water.

                      2) cuz this "alleged" insurgent was a guy with his kids in the process of helping out his fellow Iraqi citizens during an emergency. I would be an alleged insurgent in that situation also and I would be dead.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                        Had the chance?

                        I "had the chance" once to ride a Hayabusa and it was AWESOME!

                        I've never been forced to kill anyone. I had to run from someone once and another time I had to shut my door before the guy could get the gun through it. "Had the chance" is the last phrase that would come to mind describing those situations. Maybe cuz I didn't kill anyone.
                        You honestly have a problem with my wording, with the way I phrased the sentence? I haven't lived in the United States for 15 years, ever since I was a kid, so I'm sorry if my English is not quite completely up to your standards, or that you have some issues with my particular speech patterns and rhetoric.

                        Yes, I had the chance. I did not plan my day around it, I was not looking forward to it. It happened. The chance was there, and I took it. It's that simple.
                        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                          1) depends on if you count forcing them into the superdome against their will and not letting them leave and stopping the wal-mart trucks full of water.
                          Who forced who into Superdome? Who stopped the Walmart truck full of water, and when? Links man, links. We need some references here.

                          Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                          2) cuz this "alleged" insurgent was a guy with his kids in the process of helping out his fellow Iraqi citizens during an emergency. I would be an alleged insurgent in that situation also and I would be dead.
                          You didn't even see the kid. You expect guys in combat to?

                          How would you be an "alleged" insurgent? Were you walking around on the streets of Bagdad in 2008?
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                            That's because you are reaching, desperately trying to justify your view of American soldiers as murders.
                            Dude, I'm young and live in America. Of course I personally know several soldiers. ALL of them laugh about torture and ALL of them believe Innocent Iraqi is an oxymoron or at least rare enough not to matter. You might tell me go out there and talk to soldiers one on one and see what they say when the cameras are off. I have. They say: "I kill people for college money".

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                              1) depends on if you count forcing them into the superdome against their will and not letting them leave and stopping the wal-mart trucks full of water.

                              2) cuz this "alleged" insurgent was a guy with his kids in the process of helping out his fellow Iraqi citizens during an emergency. I would be an alleged insurgent in that situation also and I would be dead.
                              You are dealing with apples and oranges. One is a combat zone which has been a combat zone for almost 7 years now, with a reality of it's own and rules of it's own.

                              The other was a natural disaster, again with a reality of it's own and rules of it's own, a natural disaster which did have it's failing in the way it was managed, but that's not for now. The difference is that during Katrina no one was labeled an insurgent, and the Superdome was not really what you would call a combat zone.

                              Once again, you are looking at it from your perspective instead of the soldier's perspective. He has no way to know that the guy is a Reuters reporter. To the soldier he's just another guy who hangs around with armed insurgents. Therefore, when someone comes to help him, they must also somehow be connected to the insurgents, and letting the wounded guy be brought back to health means he could be out there in a month or in a year, again aiming a weapon at American forces
                              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Roycerson View Post
                                They say: "I kill people for college money".
                                I can say the same exact thing. Not as good conditions as the GI Bill, but I also got money for University. What's your point? That's one way to look at it, and it's a completely valid way of looking at it, too. Maybe not the most appealing, but it is a completely valid statement, and there's nothing wrong with saying that.

                                Some people join the army for patriotism, some because they have a specific skill set the army can use. Some join because they need a job.
                                Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                                Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X