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  • #61
    Originally posted by bonehead View Post
    Despite all the "polls" that say the contrary, a lot of people did want this legislation. Hell, if polls were 100% we would have had a president named Dewey in 1948. Since they were getting their way the supporters did not have to be as vocal and so were deemed less newsworthy. Lets not forget Obama was elected with a platform to overhaul healthcare so there obviously was strong support for this bill going through. Secondly, a good portion of those opposed took that stance because the bill was...... not far enough to the left.

    There are lots of reasons the 34 democrats could have voted no. Fear of the next election, pissed that not enough pork was sent their way, actually thought it was a bad bill and had the balls to not follow the party line, or really did have the majority of their constituents opposed the bill and the democrat listened.
    Bonehead you really should check the specific poll question. While the vast majority of American citizens believe that health care reform is needed they do not believe the health care bill will actually reform health care in any means shape or form. As to why some Democrats did not vote for the bill is irrelevant when faced with the monumental burden placed upon the tax payers because this bill was passed.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by gunnut View Post
      If you are an American citizen but works overseas, you will still file a tax return. And that's when they get you.

      I hope the IRS isn't listening... I only pay my taxes in Israel. I don't pay US taxes because I've yet had the opportunity to work in the US. I've worked in Israel, New Zealand and Australia, and paid my taxes in each place. Why would I pay taxes in a place I've never worked as well?
      Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

      Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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      • #63
        This is a good explanation of why the boneheads of the world are wrong, and stupidly so. From PowerLine:

        The basic asymmetry of American politics is that there are more conservatives than there are Republicans, while there are more Democrats than there are liberals. This is why Nancy Pelosi wasn't able to persuade anything like a unified caucus to vote for her government takeover of health care, and why Democratic Congressmen were competing for permission to vote against the bill.

        Why is it, though, that while conservatives outnumber liberals by anywhere from one and a half to two to one, depending on the poll, there are significantly more Democrats than Republicans? There are a number of answers, but one of them is that conservatives, as a group, are insufficiently loyal to the Republican Party.

        Back in our far-left days, we used to claim that there was no difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. ("Don't play good imperialist/bad imperialist" was one mantra.) That was stupid. Today, there are some on the right who say there is little or no difference between the parties--you hear this, for example, from some in the tea party movement. This is equally stupid. There are important differences between the parties, and the most practical thing conservatives can do in the political realm is try to build up the Republican Party.

        Of course the Republicans aren't perfect. Of course they spent too much money when they controlled Congress. But the history of the Republican Party is, on the whole, a proud one--far more so than that of the Democratic Party. This is a theme to which I intend to recur in the months to come.

        In the meantime, let's leave it with this: we were often critical of President George W. Bush. When he left office, I gave him a B- grade overall. But President Bush would have vetoed Pelosicare. This is the stark difference between our political parties: the Democrats are hell-bent on dismantling free enterprise and advancing government power over every aspect of our lives; the Republicans are not. Conservatives cannot afford to be neutral or indifferent as between the parties, nor can they afford the narcissism of third-party vanity campaigns. Conservatives must work every day to strengthen the Republican Party--it's the only hope we have. And, yes, strengthening the party will sometimes mean drawing the line at a Dede Scozzafava. But purity is not our object here; victory is.

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        • #64
          You don't like what the Democrats do, but in order to indulge your little tantrum, you'd make certain that they're completely unimpeded to do it.

          Wake up.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
            I hope the IRS isn't listening... I only pay my taxes in Israel. I don't pay US taxes because I've yet had the opportunity to work in the US. I've worked in Israel, New Zealand and Australia, and paid my taxes in each place. Why would I pay taxes in a place I've never worked as well?
            I'm not quite sure on that. I could be completely wrong. Hence I mentioned that you may have found a loop hole in the "law."

            Of course this loop hole could have been covered in the 2400+ pages of crap. I guess we'll find out what's in there now that it's passed by the house.
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by gunnut View Post
              My continuing question is do I automatically get government care if I pay the fine for not buying health insurance? If not, then how does this "law" provide 35 million more people with health care?
              Of course you won't get Gov't care. But the fine will be cheaper than the insurance, so you can wait till you get sick to buy the insurance, they won't be able to deny you coverage for your pre-existing condition.

              Why pay $4K+ a year for insurance if the fine is only $700?

              If you're too poor, you will be forced onto medicaid- that's how they are going to get about 1/2 of that 35 million covered. If you have any assets, like a house, you won't be eligible for medicaid, so don't go that route.
              "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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              • #67
                Originally posted by highsea View Post
                Of course you won't get Gov't care. But the fine will be cheaper than the insurance, so you can wait till you get sick to buy the insurance, they won't be able to deny you coverage for your pre-existing condition.

                Why pay $4K+ a year for insurance if the fine is only $700?

                If you're too poor, you will be forced onto medicaid- that's how they are going to get about 1/2 of that 35 million covered. If you have any assets, like a house, you won't be eligible for medicaid, so don't go that route.
                You mean I can wait until I become injured or ill, go to the emergency room, get treated, then buy insurance to pay for it?

                What a bargain!!!

                Can we do that with our car insurance as well?
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                  I hope the IRS isn't listening... I only pay my taxes in Israel. I don't pay US taxes because I've yet had the opportunity to work in the US. I've worked in Israel, New Zealand and Australia, and paid my taxes in each place. Why would I pay taxes in a place I've never worked as well?
                  American citizens are responsible for filing U.S. taxes regardless of where the income is earned. I lived in Canada, and filed U.S. (as well as Canadian taxes). I never had to pay anything to the U.S., as the credit for the Canadian taxes paid always covered it. If you are a U.S. citizen, and not filing taxes, they will catch up with you eventually.

                  Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside.
                  Last edited by silentsam; 23 Mar 10,, 19:59.
                  Aut vincere aut mori

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    You mean I can wait until I become injured or ill, go to the emergency room, get treated, then buy insurance to pay for it?
                    If you use the ER you will get a bill. No getting around that, same as now.

                    But if you contract some kind of chronic disease, you can wait till you actually need the insurance, and just pay the fine in the meantime.
                    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    Can we do that with our car insurance as well?
                    You could try, lol.
                    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by highsea View Post
                      If you use the ER you will get a bill. No getting around that, same as now.
                      That only happens to us "over-documented" Americans.

                      Originally posted by highsea View Post
                      But if you contract some kind of chronic disease, you can wait till you actually need the insurance, and just pay the fine in the meantime.
                      Awesome! I've always had knee problems. I was foolish enough to buy health insurance in my youth just in case something might go wrong. Now I can drop it and wait until something goes wrong.:)

                      Originally posted by highsea View Post
                      You could try, lol.
                      Hey, driving is a civil right. Mobility is a human right. Every Americans should have auto insurance.

                      Do you think Boxer and Feinstein will take me seriously if I wrote to them asking for universal auto insurance? I am their constituent and a democrat, after all...
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                        Do you think Boxer and Feinstein will take me seriously if I wrote to them asking for universal auto insurance? I am their constituent and a democrat, after all...
                        Only if it's all full tort and everyone can sue for seven figures! ;)
                        "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach...just make sure you thrust upward through his ribcage."

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                          ...Awesome! I've always had knee problems. I was foolish enough to buy health insurance in my youth just in case something might go wrong. Now I can drop it and wait until something goes wrong.:)
                          That's what the Gov't wants you to do. They want you to give the money to them, not the insurance company. That's why the fine is cheaper than the insurance, and why there's no criminal penalty for not buying insurance.

                          They made it so when you really need it, you can stop paying the Gov't and start paying the insurance company. They will forgive you when you do that, because you are sick and they feel sorry for you. This is known as "bringing you into the system".

                          The Gov't knows what is best for you and me. It's important to do what they want.

                          They made it too expensive for me to have employees, which means that they don't want me to have employees. So I laid everyone off, and I work by myself. I make more money for myself this way, so obviously that's what they want me to do. They are only looking out for my best interests.
                          "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                            Hey, driving is a civil right. Mobility is a human right.
                            not a right but privilige, never heard of mobulity as a right.
                            unless i missed your searcasm, lol
                            "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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                            • #74
                              Actually, if someone blocks you from crossing over a state border without due process, it violates your Fifth Amendment rights. (Thank you Tom Clancy)
                              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by omon View Post
                                not a right but privilige, never heard of mobulity as a right.
                                unless i missed your searcasm, lol
                                Mobility, the freedom to come and go as we choose, is a human right. Otherwise we could still have slaves.

                                Besides, where in the constitution does it say health care is a right?
                                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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