SS United States in danger of being scrapped

[Rumrunner]

Since all these ships have yellow chromate how exactly would HAZMAT go around removing it? Wouldn't it be better to simply leave it in it's place and paint over it to seal? Similar to what we do for asbestos when there are issues?

We were told to do the same thing on our ship with green 'linoleum' asbestos-laced tiling installed by the USCG in her last yard period. It was mostly removed from the wheelhouse, radio room and Captains cabin, but the entire forward berth still had them. CG inspector took one look at it and said "if it costs too much to remove it, cover it with an floor sealant and pretend like you never saw it".

His unofficial off-the-record response of course...:))

[tbm3fan]

LOL, that green tile is all over the decks of the Hornet plus the NOS we have stored away for use where needed... not saying where though

[Ryan Bailey]

My Recommendaton to Pres. Obama: n A Ship of State for America

A humble proposal to save Our Nation's Vessel

Recommendation: The Congressional selection for military duty of the Ocean Liner SS United States (formerly of the United States Lines, presently of NCL America) & her commissioning as a Troopship. Her capabilities, which remain unmatched in the last half century, make her an extremely needed asset in the GWOT & future conflicts. Her fitting out for sea duty with the US Army could serve as a generally useful spending package in revitalising certain economic sectors & providing employment.

Mrs. Reagan could dedicate her on 04JUL09 in Philadelphia & usher in a new era of stewardship & American dominance of the seas & thereby global security.

http://www.ss-united-states.net/SSUn...PagesFacts.htm

As indicated by the statistics in the link above her military applications are significant. Naval Architectural proposals may be on file for fitting her out with gunnery, missilery, commo arrays, stealth, helopads, provisions & more. She would make the ultimate command and control vessel/alternate joint communication site. With satellite defeating stealth technology & zero wake she would be, in my conservative estimate, ten times better fit for these purposes than the Mt. Weather Compound or the others.

It is well known that we are increasingly in danger of losing this national treasure. I pray the Congress to take action to secure this valuable military asset for our future.

Do you all agree with me that She should not be towed for scrap to Asia as all her sister liners have been.

I am anxious as to your additional thoughts on her potential mission tasking or application otherwise.

May she live forever
"Neo: It's impossible!
Bane: Not impossible... Inevitable."

[Ryan Bailey]

Sorry if some of you have seen this before, but this is my military-industrial restoration project proposal for another generation of preservation for our Ship of State.

[Ken_NJ]

Some good news on the SS United States. But the have a long tough, expensive road ahead of them.

Preservationists Perched To Buy SS UNITED STATES | MaritimeMatters | Cruise ship news and ocean liner history

Legendary Liner Steers Clear of Scrapyard - WSJ.com

[Gun Grape]

Resurrecting a long dead thread for an update.


Fight continues over the SS United States - Philly.com

So to keep it from being scrapped, they are scrapping it in pieces?

There are no walls, no staterooms nothing. Just an empty shell. What exactly are they trying to "Save"?

4 years after they bought it, haven't found a home and even if they did its to contaminated to move.

Developer Joe Henwood has an idea for the ailing SS United States: Free it from its dockside prison, tow it down the Delaware River, and transform it into a grand, floating hotel beside Harrah's casino in Chester.

The nonprofit conservancy that owns the ship has a response: Forget it. It won't work. And besides, the United States belongs in New York.

For 18 years, the leviathan has cast its rusty shadow over Pier 82 in South Philadelphia. But in recent weeks, discussions over the ship's future have taken on new urgency.

The SS United States Conservancy, the ship's owner, says decisions about its fate and future must be made this fall. Others who care about the ship raise concerns over the conservancy's removal and sale of internal parts. Some say that despite four years of effort, the conservancy has gotten nowhere.

"I think the conservancy has had its shot," said Irvin Richter, founder, chairman, and chief executive of Hill International, a global construction-consulting firm based in Marlton. "They haven't done anything with it."

It's time, he said, for new owners and a fresh perspective, people like him who are ready to help turn the ship into a spectacular hotel, restaurant, and retail complex, similar to the Queen Mary in Long Beach, Calif.

Susan Gibbs disagrees.

The conservancy executive director, granddaughter of the ship's designer, said it's only through the work of the group and its supporters that the United States is here at all.

"I'm very proud of our progress," she said. "We saved the ship from certain scrapping. . . . We're closer than we've ever been to securing a permanent home for the ship, and we continue to have positive meetings with developers. But we have not yet crossed the finish line."

Even under favorable circumstances, restoration is an extremely complicated and costly endeavor, business plans overlaid with historic preservation, undertaken at a time when charitable giving lags and the economy remains sluggish.

In June, conservancy officials said they were on the cusp of successful negotiations to put the ship in Brooklyn or Manhattan, and would announce specifics at the end of July. Last week, with no announcement made, they said talks were continuing.

Dan McSweeney, a conservancy board member and managing director of the SS United States Redevelopment Project, said the size and density of the target population in the Philadelphia area were too small to support a project estimated to cost $300 million.

The conservancy wants to anchor the ship in a major city where it would become a tourist attraction, museum, educational facility, retail venue, and hotel.

"The population and number of visitors interested in visiting the ship would be much larger in New York," he said.

Meanwhile, the conservancy operates in a constant struggle for money to save the ship.

It sold one of the ship's massive propellers to a recycling firm to help cover the vessel's $80,000-a-month maintenance costs. In July, it was poised to sell another when Jim Pollin of the Pollin Group donated $220,000 to halt the sale.

"She's as iconic a symbol as the Washington Monument or Empire State Building, and she must not be destroyed on our watch," Pollin said at a news conference.

Others want to know whether the conservancy is removing precious metals from the ship's lower chambers under the guise of renovation.

"What's being taken out of there? And how much money is being generated?" asked Tony Lame, a longtime conservancy member. "And are these guys doing this in an organized fashion, or are they just taking out everything they can get their hands on?"

Conservancy officials deny that "precious metals" have been removed, but said nickel, brass, copper, and aluminum have been sold, with the money used to support the ship's maintenance.

Removing obsolete parts created space for future modern heating, cooling, and electrical systems, work that needs to be done at some point, but brought in money by being done now, the group said. None of the material is historically significant or vital to the ship's structural integrity, it said.

In its day, the United States was a queen of the sea, designed by naval architect William Francis Gibbs of Philadelphia, its steel forged at Lukens Steel in Coatesville.

The ship was both luxury liner and secret weapon: It could quickly be turned into a troop ship able to transport 15,000 soldiers up to 10,000 miles without refueling.

The ship's 1952 maiden voyage shattered the trans-Atlantic speed record, which it still holds. It sailed 400 times from New York to Europe and other destinations, ferrying noblemen and immigrants, along with Presidents Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and John F. Kennedy.

But in the 1960s, plane travel made liners outmoded. When the United States docked in Newport News, Va., for an annual overhaul in 1969, it was taken from service. The ship was moved to Norfolk, sold, resold, put up for auction, towed to Turkey and to Ukraine, and finally to Philadelphia in 1996, its furniture and interior long since stripped.

It seemed destined for scrap when its owner, Norwegian Cruise Line, offered it for sale in 2009. The conservancy was offered the first chance to buy but lacked the money.

The next year, a savior emerged: Philadelphia philanthropist H.F. "Gerry" Lenfest, now owner and publisher of The Inquirer, said he would donate up to $5.8 million to save the ship. The money allowed the conservancy to buy the vessel and keep it docked near Columbus Boulevard while redevelopment plans went forward.

Few doubt the conservancy has worked zealously - staging exhibits about the ship, publicizing its history, and raising money - or that those efforts might be for naught.

"I think they've done the best they can," Lenfest said. "It's a monumental task to raise that money to restore the vessel. They've tried with integrity, and they've tried very hard."

He said he did not plan to put more money into the project.

The conservancy said that it had considered sites in Philadelphia, Chester, Miami, Baltimore, and Boston, but that New York offered the best option for rebirth.

Henwood rejected that argument.

"It's not going to New York. It's not going to happen," said the head of Binnacle Group L.L.C. in Media. "New York is the most expensive, risky place in the world to do business."

He and the conservancy have held sporadic, fruitless negotiations since 2009. The conservancy said talks failed after it repeatedly sought details regarding Henwood's qualifications and potential investors but received no concrete answers.

Henwood said he was talking to four major investors and expected to win the ship once the conservancy runs out of money.

"When they can't control it any longer, when it's ready to get scrapped, we'll step in," he said. "We're approaching this as a business, not as a rescue mission for an old ship."

Drawings by the Binnacle Group portray the ship docked just south of the oval at Harrah's racetrack and casino. The group imagines the USS Olympia, whose future has been uncertain, set nearby, with space devoted to a conference center and museum.

"It can be done," said Villanova Business School economist David Fiorenza.

The Queen Mary serves as a hotel and show space. In the Netherlands, the SS Rotterdam has become a four-star hotel. Last year in Sweden, the 1953 passenger liner Birger Jarl found new life as a hostel.

The project would help impoverished Chester, Fiorenza said, boosting a waterfront that also hosts PPL Park, home to the Philadelphia Union soccer team. But, he cautioned, the expense and complication would be enormous.

Henwood said turning the ship into a 500-room hotel could take five years and cost $400 million. Chester would embrace the project, he said, citing a 2012 letter from Mayor John Linder that said the city could not help pay, but "we nonetheless fully endorse the concept."

The ship won't go anywhere soon. An arduous towing-permit process lies ahead, and on-board inspections identified PCBs, carcinogens often found in old paint and insulation.

"They can't move the ship until the PCBs have been removed," said Donna Henon, a spokeswoman for the Environmental Protection Agency, who added that the conservancy had provided a draft remediation plan.

The conservancy said it would comply with all government regulations before moving the ship.

Gibbs said it would be a national tragedy if the conservancy were forced to scrap the United States. Though there is no guarantee, she said she was confident the ship could be saved and restored.

"The SS United States continues to capture interest and attention from prospective developers, but we need a partner to begin contributing to the ship financially in very short order," she said. "We know there's another angel out there, someone who, like me, may have trouble sleeping at night knowing that America's iconic flagship, the SS United States, is in grave danger of going under."

[email protected]]

[surfgun]

She is doomed. No way around it.

[TopHatter]

She is doomed. No way around it.

Nope, no way around it. Just like the supercarriers. Too damn much ship for an NGO to handle.

[tbm3fan]

God spare us the developers and their hair brained ideas.

[dundonrl]

Off New England in 59or 60 I was on watch in crows nest, middle of night. United States came within 100 yds of us (TOO Close)bow on. Magnificent sight, bone in her teeth, she towered above us it seemed. And then she disappeared into the darkness. So fast it seemed she could outrun a destroyer. I'd rather see a developer get her than see her dead. Strange as it may sound, what about Miami/Miami Beach area? Huge flow of fresh blood tourists, super rich enterpreneurs, and gambling a go. Bet a lot of clean up could be done in Cuba or other Caribean country where labor is cheaper and EPA doesn't tread. ??

she could outrun a destroyer almost every ship ever made.. fastest DD I can find is the USS Gridley DD 380 with a flank speed of 38.5 knots, the SS United States hit 38.32 knots..

[desertswo]

Off New England in 59or 60 I was on watch in crows nest, middle of night. United States came within 100 yds of us (TOO Close)bow on. Magnificent sight, bone in her teeth, she towered above us it seemed. And then she disappeared into the darkness. So fast it seemed she could outrun a destroyer. I'd rather see a developer get her than see her dead. Strange as it may sound, what about Miami/Miami Beach area? Huge flow of fresh blood tourists, super rich enterpreneurs, and gambling a go. Bet a lot of clean up could be done in Cuba or other Caribean country where labor is cheaper and EPA doesn't tread. ??

That's because she could. Contrary to Rumrunner's belief that United States had the engineering plant designed for the Iowa-class battleship Illinois that was cancelled, that is not the case, because the engines for Illinois and Kentucky were placed in the four ships of the Sacramento-class AOEs ("fat" ships that could flat out fly); ships the engineering plants of which I inspected more than once. A possibility might have been the Montana-class that were planned but never built. One of the interesting factoids about main steam turbines and reduction gear is that the US Navy does not own them. They are actually leased long term from companies like Westinghouse, GE, and DeLaval, and those companies are on the hook for any major maintenance and repair. That being the case, they had more than a few that were built but never used lying around their assembly plants.

Regardless, were someone like me to walk into the engineering spaces of United States we would see it for what it was . . . the forerunner of the Forestall-class supercarrier, a plant layout that remained in use in all of the follow-on conventional carriers; only driving a ship with much less displacement. That is why her actual top end was classified for many years even after she was taken out of service. It certainly approached 40 knots, and rumor from reliable sources tells me it may have been a couple of knots more, although rarely demonstrated for strategic reasons. Regardless, she probably was the fastest thing you ever saw, at least at that size, in your career.

[blidgepump]

Leased equipment ....

"One of the interesting factoids about main steam turbines and reduction gear is that the US Navy does not own them. They are actually leased long term from companies like Westinghouse, GE, and DeLaval, and those companies are on the hook for any major maintenance and repair. That being the case, they had more than a few that were built but never used lying around their assembly plants."

Is this true for all USN ships?

[desertswo]

"One of the interesting factoids about main steam turbines and reduction gear is that the US Navy does not own them. They are actually leased long term from companies like Westinghouse, GE, and DeLaval, and those companies are on the hook for any major maintenance and repair. That being the case, they had more than a few that were built but never used lying around their assembly plants."

Is this true for all USN ships?

Not for diesel engines. God knows I've had tons of those torn down to parade rest. LM2500s? Not sure about. We rig them in and out through the mack, and do depot level maintenance, but at what point GE might step in, if at all, I really don't know. The reduction gear are leased for sure, for the diesels and gas turbines. Basically, those are things that other than some simple inspections (which we strip down nekkid to do), you really don't want sailors mucking about.

[dundonrl]

"One of the interesting factoids about main steam turbines and reduction gear is that the US Navy does not own them. They are actually leased long term from companies like Westinghouse, GE, and DeLaval, and those companies are on the hook for any major maintenance and repair. That being the case, they had more than a few that were built but never used lying around their assembly plants."

Is this true for all USN ships?

not sure.. but my last ship (USS Halsey DDG 97) , I know they had to replace at least one of her main reduction gears, after a couple fires (the 1st fires weren't found out till after the 2nd fires).. putting her out of service for quite a while.

2007: On 5 January, 2007, HALSEY experienced a low level explosion in her Number One Main Reduction Gear (MRG) in Main Engine Room One. The explosion caused catastrophic damage to the MRG, necessitating an emergent seven month maintenance period for extensive repair work.

HALSEY’s Commanding Officer, CDR John Pinckney, relinquished command on 1 Feb and on 19 Feb, CDR Paul J. Schlise assumed command. HALSEY’s Executive Officer, LCDR Chris Monroe, served as Acting Command Officer during the interim period.

On 19 March 2007, HALSEY entered drydock at the BAE shipyard for repairs, where she remained until 4 May. During that time, the damaged MRG was removed through a hole cut into the starboard side of the ship, and a replacement MRG was installed. Following HALSEY’s undocking from the shipyard, she returned to Naval Base San Diego for a two month period of pierside alignment of the newly-installed Main Reduction Gear. After passing Light-off Assessment from 23 to 27 July, 2008, USS HALSEY successfully completed Sea Trials in the Southern California Operations Area (SOCAL OpArea), marking the end of the MRG repair period and HALSEY’s return to active employment.


I was told that the replacement main reduction gear was one that was removed from the USS Cole after the terrorist attack, refurbished and installed in the USS Halsey..

[SharkPilot]

I can understand the presence of flammable or even explosive vapors within the gear box. What would the ignition source be? Could it be failing bearing(s) causing sparks? Recently I read about an Swedish(?) destroyer that suffered a MRG explosion that really made a mess and killed some of the engine crew. The cause wasn't explained and I have been curious about that too.
Thanks, from a landlubber.