Chinese espionage on CBS 60 minutes

[cdude]

Stealing America's Secrets - 60 Minutes - CBS News

The case is quite fishy in my opinion. For 2000 bucks, 2000 bucks? Really?

[gunnut]

Stealing America's Secrets - 60 Minutes - CBS News

The case is quite fishy in my opinion. For 2000 bucks, 2000 bucks? Really?

If you need money, you need money.

[TopHatter]

Stealing America's Secrets - 60 Minutes - CBS News

The case is quite fishy in my opinion. For 2000 bucks, 2000 bucks? Really?

The average salary in the People's Republic for 2006 was $2025.

And, while this is hardly an "apples to apples" comparison, some of the most devastatingly effective US spies were paid chump change by the Soviets.

[Stitch]

There's usually more going on than just the money, also; the money is definitely part of it, but if a person is not inclined to betray his country to begin with, he probably never will, even with gobs of cash. There is usually a combination of factors going on that causes a person to sell state secrets, including psychological factors (sometimes especially psychological factors). As Hatter mentioned, some of the most notorious spies sold state secrets to the Soviets for next to nothing; some of them actually thought they were making the world a better place by doing so, probably due to political ideology.

[TopHatter]

There is usually a combination of factors going on that causes a person to sell state secrets, including psychological factors (sometimes especially psychological factors).

MICE

Money
Ideology
Compromise or Coercion
Ego

As Hatter mentioned, some of the most notorious spies sold state secrets to the Soviets for next to nothing; some of them actually thought they were making the world a better place by doing so, probably due to political ideology.

Certainly before Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin to the 20th Party Congress, there was plenty of useful idiots with stars in their eyes when it came to the shining future promised by Communism.

Plenty of the "modern" ones starting spying for money, only to discover that the Soviet Union was notoriously tight-fisted with payouts.

[cdude]

The average salary in the People's Republic for 2006 was $2025.

And, while this is hardly an "apples to apples" comparison, some of the most devastatingly effective US spies were paid chump change by the Soviets.

You didn't watch the video. The DOD employee was paid for only $2000. I am sure his salary is in the 6 figures, so why would he risk his career and freedom for peanuts?

Doesn't make sense at all.

[TopHatter]

You didn't watch the video. The DOD employee was paid for only $2000. I am sure his salary is in the 6 figures, so why would he risk his career and freedom for peanuts?

Doesn't make sense at all.

Like I said, some of the most valuable spies for the Soviets were paid comparatively little...and money is hardly the only motivation for spying.

[cdude]

Like I said, some of the most valuable spies for the Soviets were paid comparatively little...and money is hardly the only motivation for spying.

I agree, but again, watch the video.

The alleged Chinese spy is actually from Taiwan, and he told the DOD employee that he was working for the TW government.

So the DOD employee thought he was selling something to a US ally. The only incentive I see here is money, peanut money.

[TopHatter]

I agree, but again, watch the video.

The alleged Chinese spy is actually from Taiwan, and he told the DOD employee that he was working for the TW government.

So the DOD employee thought he was selling something to a US ally. The only incentive I see here is money, peanut money.

There is another possibility: The "Jonathan Pollard motivation/defense"

[cdude]

There is another possibility: The "Jonathan Pollard motivation/defense"

Which is, money? This from the wiki page

"in June 1984, Pollard started passing classified information to Sella and received, in exchange, $10,000 cash and a very expensive diamond and sapphire ring, which Pollard later used to propose marriage to his girlfriend Anne. He also agreed to receive $1,500 per month for further espionage"

That's some handsome money in the 80's. But this guy on CBS was paid for 2000 dollars... Maybe he's just stupid.

[TopHatter]

Which is, money? This from the wiki page

"in June 1984, Pollard started passing classified information to Sella and received, in exchange, $10,000 cash and a very expensive diamond and sapphire ring, which Pollard later used to propose marriage to his girlfriend Anne. He also agreed to receive $1,500 per month for further espionage"

That's some handsome money in the 80's. But this guy on CBS was paid for 2000 dollars... Maybe he's just stupid.

His bullshit defense was that he wasn't spying against the US, but for a US ally and therefore it wasn't harmful to the U.S.

He claimed he was motivated to help Israel get information that Israel needed but the US for whatever reason had seen fit to deny Israel.

[astralis]

cdude,

You didn't watch the video. The DOD employee was paid for only $2000. I am sure his salary is in the 6 figures, so why would he risk his career and freedom for peanuts?

a lot of people just want some sort of recognition, or repeated minor payoffs. it's the VERY rare traitor whom gets paid "the big bucks", which is usually defined as $1 mil up (still chump change by rich people standards).

this is an old story, but i have co-workers whom used to work with the guy. he was lucky; he got off light.

[Stitch]

His bullshit defense was that he wasn't spying against the US, but for a US ally and therefore it wasn't harmful to the U.S.

I understand his reasoning, but I still think it was (as you so eloquently said) bullshit; selling state secrets is STILL selling state secrets, it doesn't matter who you're selling them to. That's the same defense the people who sold intelligence to the Israelis used; yeah, maybe they are our allies (for now), but that doesn't make it right.

[cdude]

Funny I just watched Breach, the Robert Hansen story. Dude asked for 100K in his first letter to the Soviets, in the 80's. That's how to do it the right way. This guy is just an idiot.

[TopHatter]

I understand his reasoning, but I still think it was (as you so eloquently said) bullshit; selling state secrets is STILL selling state secrets, it doesn't matter who you're selling them to. That's the same defense the people who sold intelligence to the Israelis used; yeah, maybe they are our allies (for now), but that doesn't make it right.

I'm extremely gratified by the fact that Pollard is rotting away in prison where he belongs...and the only way he's going to leave is in a body bag (especially thanks to his self-righteous decision not to seek parole).

Reading his story, I found a cold satisfaction that the Israeli embassy brusquely rejected him after he sought asylum, even invoking the Law of Return...sending him right back out into the waiting arms of the FBI.

Funny I just watched Breach, the Robert Hansen story. Dude asked for 100K in his first letter to the Soviets, in the 80's. That's how to do it the right way. This guy is just an idiot.

Again, you're assuming that his primary motivation was money and lots of it.

Some people will ask for a modest amount, either thinking that's all they'll be able to get, or not wanting to seem greedy (too late!) or thinking they can ramp up their demands later or any other reason.