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Thread: What if the U.S. annexed Canada in 1812?

  1. #1
    Patron Proyas's Avatar
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    What if the U.S. annexed Canada in 1812?

    I've been thinking about this a lot lately. How would history and the U.S. have turned out different had the Americans taken over Canada during the War of 1812?

    Would we have assimilated the French eventually, like we did with all those other European nationalities that immigrated here?

    How would the addition of northern states affected the tensions between north and south over slavery?

    Would the absorption of the non-French Canadians done anything to affect American culture?

    How would the U.S. government have behaved towards the Canadian aboriginals?

    Would the U.S. be a much more powerful or richer country today?

    (Please try to be serious.)

  2. #2
    Officer of Engineers
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    That was on the assumption that you could have taken Canada in 1812. The military reality was that once Great Britian took care of Napoleon, the US lost all chance at victory.

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    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Assuming that the U.S won all first battles. The questions would be if England had the stomach to fight another war in the new world and the logistical nightmares that went along with it. Would france rise up again if England placed too many military resources so far away in the new world. If the U.S. had Canada would we have bought Alaska or would that still be Russian 150 years later? Talk about implications for the cold war. Having Canada, would the U.S. have bothered expanding into the S.W.? How would all the people in the "North" have voted for presidential elections. A different president here and there could have vastly altered history. Would any other president besides Lincoln pursue the civil war? Would manifest destiny happen with a different succession of presidents.

    I do not think we need to look any farther than how we treated American Indians to see how the natives in Canada would fare. I do not see how the French Canadians would have been any different than the French that were assimilated in the South.

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    Patron Proyas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Assuming that the U.S won all first battles. The questions would be if England had the stomach to fight another war in the new world and the logistical nightmares that went along with it. Would france rise up again if England placed too many military resources so far away in the new world. If the U.S. had Canada would we have bought Alaska or would that still be Russian 150 years later? Talk about implications for the cold war. Having Canada, would the U.S. have bothered expanding into the S.W.? How would all the people in the "North" have voted for presidential elections. A different president here and there could have vastly altered history. Would any other president besides Lincoln pursue the civil war? Would manifest destiny happen with a different succession of presidents.
    Any idea of how the Canadians might have voted?

    I do not think we need to look any farther than how we treated American Indians to see how the natives in Canada would fare. I do not see how the French Canadians would have been any different than the French that were assimilated in the South.
    Why did the Quebecois retain their strong French identity for so long anyway?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Assuming that the U.S won all first battles.
    The war was actually decided in 1812 when the Canadians, ie the people in both Upper and Lower Canada, refused to join the Americans. After that, it was no longer a case of Liberation, as some Americans had thought, but of conquest. However, the only initial advantage the Americans had was numbers. The British had leadership, guild, determination, strategic insight and fortitude. The Americans actually lost territory in the first year of the war even though they were the Aggressors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proyas View Post
    Any idea of how the Canadians might have voted?
    We traded with the North more than the South.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proyas View Post
    Why did the Quebecois retain their strong French identity for so long anyway?
    Exactly the same reason why the Americans were driven out. French Canadian (not Quebecois, that term came much later during the Rene Leveques years) Regiments saved the Canadas. In exchange, the British did not assimulate them but that was for far more practical reasons than anything else. English Canada resided in Upper Canada and did not have the numbers to swamp Lower French Canada.

    The French Canadians saw that this would not be the case with the Americans and rose up to meet the Americans.

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Exactly the same reason why the Americans were driven out. French Canadian (not Quebecois, that term came much later during the Rene Leveques years) Regiments saved the Canadas. In exchange, the British did not assimulate them but that was for far more practical reasons than anything else. English Canada resided in Upper Canada and did not have the numbers to swamp Lower French Canada.

    The French Canadians saw that this would not be the case with the Americans and rose up to meet the Americans.
    History has the gift of irony,perhaps to much.From what you say,Sir,if the Americans would have allied themselves with France,they would have conquered Canada.But that was improbable,thanks to the internal fabric of American politics.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  7. #7
    Officer of Engineers
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    No, French Canada long since have given up on France long before the War of 1812. In fact, French Canada had refused to come France's aide during WWI and WWII and the result was the need for conscription.

    This being said, the British side of the War of 1812 was actually an alliance of 4 groups. The British, English Upper Canadians, French Lower Canadians, and the First Nations. The common thread between all of them was that they don't want to be Americans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The French Canadians saw that this would not be the case with the Americans and rose up to meet the Americans.
    Its the strangest thing, take the French out of France and their balls grow back. here is another guy descended from the French who fled Acadia.


    DEBLANC, JEFFERSON JOSEPH
    Rank and Organization: Captain, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, Marine Fighting Squadron 112. Place and date: Off Kolombangara Island in the Solomons group, 31 January 1943. Entered service at: Louisiana. Born: 15 February 1921, Lockport, La.
    Citation:
    For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as leader of a section of 6 fighter planes in Marine Fighting Squadron 112, during aerial operations against enemy Japanese forces off Kolombangara Island in the Solomons group, 31 January 1943. Taking off with his section as escort for a strike force of dive bombers and torpedo planes ordered to attack Japanese surface vessels, 1st Lt. DeBlanc led his flight directly to the target area where, at 14,000 feet, our strike force encountered a large number of Japanese Zeros protecting the enemy's surface craft. In company with the other fighters, 1st Lt. DeBlanc instantly engaged the hostile planes and aggressively countered their repeated attempts to drive off our bombers, persevering in his efforts to protect the diving planes and waging fierce combat until, picking up a call for assistance from the dive bombers, under attack by enemy float planes at 1,000 feet, he broke off his engagement with the Zeros, plunged into the formation of float planes and disrupted the savage attack, enabling our dive bombers and torpedo planes to complete their runs on the Japanese surface disposition and withdraw without further incident. Although his escort mission was fulfilled upon the safe retirement of the bombers, 1st Lt. DeBlanc courageously remained on the scene despite a rapidly diminishing fuel supply and, boldly challenging the enemy's superior number of float planes, fought a valiant battle against terrific odds, seizing the tactical advantage and striking repeatedly to destroy 3 of the hostile aircraft and to disperse the remainder. Prepared to maneuver his damaged plane back to base, he had climbed aloft and set his course when he discovered 2 Zeros closing in behind. Undaunted, he opened fire and blasted both Zeros from the sky in a short, bitterly fought action which resulted in such hopeless damage to his own plane that he was forced to bail out at a perilously low altitude atop the trees on enemy-held Kolombangara. A gallant officer, a superb airman, and an indomitable fighter, 1st Lt. DeBlanc had rendered decisive assistance during a critical stage of operations, and his unwavering fortitude in the face of overwhelming opposition reflects the highest credit upon himself and adds new luster to the traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Its the strangest thing, take the French out of France and their balls grow back. here is another guy descended from the French who fled Acadia.
    Off-topic,but this joke tends to become a myth,from what I notice.And I could say something about some wabbers.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Colonel,Sir, thinking of the force led by General Brock,I think you have a strong point about the alliance.
    Were the French Canadians resentful for being left at the mercy of the English?
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    In Memoriam/OAF-Old Aggravating Fart Senior Contributor Shamus's Avatar
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    Sheesh....we'd still be stuck with Celine Dion......
    "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories." Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    Officer of Engineers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Colonel,Sir, thinking of the force led by General Brock,I think you have a strong point about the alliance.
    Were the French Canadians resentful for being left at the mercy of the English?
    Not sure what you mean here. The Battle of Chateauguay was won by LCol Charles de Salaberry, a French-Canadian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamus View Post
    Sheesh....we'd still be stuck with Celine Dion......
    And then we have nowhere to send her!

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    What if the U.S. annexed Canada in 1812?
    Then our resident Canadian army Colonel would be a US army general! :P

  14. #14
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proyas View Post
    Any idea of how the Canadians might have voted?


    Why did the Quebecois retain their strong French identity for so long anyway?
    Can't say much about the second question.

    As the first. It could have gone either way. Based on current conditions, Either the U.S would have far stricter gun control measures(that would suck), or we would today be able to carry our weapons with out any hassle when traveling from the lower 48 to Alaska. Now that would be cool.

  15. #15
    Regular redco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    History has the gift of irony,perhaps to much.From what you say,Sir,if the Americans would have allied themselves with France,they would have conquered Canada.But that was improbable,thanks to the internal fabric of American politics.
    Actually the Americans and French were allies during an earlier war, The War Of Independence, but even then a US invasion of Canada failed.

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