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  • Originally posted by Vinod2070 View Post
    Well, this is a well known fact that many Rajputs entered into agreement with the Mughals. Many even converted because of greed or fear. They gave away their daughters to the Mughals and so on. It was obviously political as well rather than religious. Obviously there was no national conscience at that point and it was a case of each one fending for oneself. All of us did pay a heavy price for that.
    It had a lot to do with power. Many Rajput kingdoms were able to hold influence and power over other kingdoms if they were allied with the Mughals. When the Marathas invaded from the South into North India, they were seen as anything but friends.
    Also, the Mughals were not any "foreigners" anymore but were themselves a very Indian empire. Infact, Mughal Emporers, such as Shah Jahan, had more Hindu blood in them than they did Turkic.

    I am getting a bit uncomfortable with the tone this discussion seems to be acquiring. I never wanted to make it a Hindu blaming Sikh sort of thing or vice versa, just wanted to understand the factual history.
    Hey, I'm just churning out as much factual history as I can to sort of kill the stereotypes we've seen in this thread. Sorry if you feel uncomfortable, but you shouldn't. As we've also seen in this thread that there are no limits to the type of questions, so hey, ask if you're not sure, I'll try my best to answer.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      It had a lot to do with power. Many Rajput kingdoms were able to hold influence and power over other kingdoms if they were allied with the Mughals. When the Marathas invaded from the South into North India, they were seen as anything but friends.
      Also, the Mughals were not any "foreigners" anymore but were themselves a very Indian empire. Infact, Mughal Emporers, such as Shah Jahan, had more Hindu blood in them than they did Turkic.
      Agree that the Mughal emperors after Akbar had a lot of Hindu blood flowing in their veins. They had become Indians to the extent that they were no longer looking at any outside country as their real home.

      After what Aurangzeb did, I find it difficult to look at them as fully Indians. That Tartar intolerance was just lurking beneath the surface and it came out after Akbar, fully manifesting itself in Aurangzeb.

      Blood or ancestral ties alone don't make a nationality. One just has to look at the present day Pakistanis to see that.

      Hey, I'm just churning out as much factual history as I can to sort of kill the stereotypes we've seen in this thread. Sorry if you feel uncomfortable, but you shouldn't. As we've also seen in this thread that there are no limits to the type of questions, so hey, ask if you're not sure, I'll try my best to answer.
      Cool. Thanks.
      There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Vinod2070 View Post
        Agree that the Mughal emperors after Akbar had a lot of Hindu blood flowing in their veins. They had become Indians to the extent that they were no longer looking at any outside country as their real home.

        After what Aurangzeb did, I find it difficult to look at them as fully Indians. That Tartar intolerance was just lurking beneath the surface and it came out after Akbar, fully manifesting itself in Aurangzeb.
        lol. Why? because someone from the subcontinent can never be intolerant, right?? We're just that damn good. :))

        Blood or ancestral ties alone don't make a nationality. One just has to look at the present day Pakistanis to see that.
        The concept of nationalism makes a nationality, which was not alive back then. Forget Pakistan, India is the perfect example of "blood or ancestral ties" do not make a nationality. If this nationalism was not introduced, you would have had dozens of separate ethnicity based countries in the subcontinent.
        Last edited by Tronic; 16 Mar 10,, 22:24.
        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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        • Hi to all,

          Would it not have been a bit wiser to have been a bit more understanding with Halima (I am a Muslim)

          She is fairly young has the language problem, and has probably grown up in a very different world to the rest of us.

          If you grow up within a closed society, whereas the “norm” is very different to the outside world, and you are told “truths” by those around you “all your life”…then that “IS” your truth…as you know nothing else!!!!!

          Would it not be better to enlighten with more understanding to begin with, as learning that something one has believed to be the truth your whole life, is in fact not the whole truth, and can in fact be incorrect can be a little bewildering to start with. (especially when you can’t be 100% sure that it has been translated correctly)

          Could we not give her a bit more of a chance….we may well learn a great deal in the process.

          Steve

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          • Originally posted by I am a Muslim View Post
            I do not think this
            Suppose that you have owned the house for yourself and have inherited from your father
            Inherited from your father and your grandfather and so on until you arrived
            Do you allow anyone to come and take you home, or even half of it
            You hound


            If by this I get the idea that that you refer to Jerusalem, where not the Jews there first? Christianity is older than Islam and Judaism is older than Christian beliefs so by that line of reasoning the Jews own Jerusalem......


            Also calling people dogs is one of the worst insults Muslims have as they are believed to be filthy. I didn't see anyone insult you first.

            Not too nice bro.
            Originally posted by GVChamp
            College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

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            • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              Yep, it's everywhere. In reality it simply represents changing faiths in an area. Why build a new church when that one over there will do. Knock down the icons and put up your own


              Funny that, I saw old churches in London with Crescents on the spires.
              Originally posted by GVChamp
              College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                Why do the Muslims, and the Palestinians in particular, place such a high emphasis on Jerusalem, when (as far as I remember) Allah never visited Jerusalem, never set foot in Israel, and I'm fairly certain that Jerusalem isn't even mentioned in the Koran. The Muslims have Mecca and Medina. Why do you guys need Jerusalem as well?
                This thread has wandered far from the original question posed by Bigross, above.

                The short answer to the first question is, it's politcal!

                Unfortunately for those that create and maintain myths, they will eventually come unstuck as science (archeologists) discover more and are able to use scientific methods such as cabon dating to prove or disprove theories.

                The following is an interesting part of an article from Ynet news.

                What are the difficulties with the belief that the al-Aqsa mosque described in Islamic tradition is located in Jerusalem? For one, the people of Mecca, who knew Muhammad well, did not believe this story. Only Abu Bakr, (later the first Calif,) believed him and thus was called al-Siddiq (“the believer".)


                The second difficulty is that Islamic tradition tells us that al-Aqsa mosque is near Mecca on the Arabian Peninsula. This was unequivocally stated in "Kitab al-Maghazi," a book by the Muslim historian and geographer al-Waqidi. According to al-Waqidi, there were two "masjeds" (places of prayer) in al-Gi'irranah, a village between Mecca and Ta'if - one was "the closer mosque" (al-masjid al-adna) and the other was "the further mosque" (al-masjid al-aqsa,) and Muhammad would pray there when he went out of town.
                The source and whole story here; The myth of al-Aqsa - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews

                The full article deals with the politics of the present belief propagated about the Al-aqsa mosque and the Dome of the rock.
                Even if you can believe in a winged horse, the time lines of the event and the building of both structures don't gel.

                The political aspect that Dr. Kedar mentions are given more credit by the existence of photos taken in the late 1800's when the Ottoman empire was still functioning, that show the Dome of the rock apparently abandoned and in a very bad state of repair. Weeds can also be seen growing up between the pavers in the courtyard surrounding the dome which can not be expected for a place so venerated.

                Two questions therefore neccessary to ask are, how much more turmoil/unneccessary deaths need occur before both sides examine the mounting scientific evidence and, who will be the Muslim leader to have the stones to do so?

                Cheers.
                Last edited by captain; 01 Apr 10,, 18:22.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by silentsam View Post
                  Why do you want to be our friend?
                  I would think that she means that she wants to be one of the group, not actually friends in the buddy, buddy, hugging sense.

                  I would think that it would be very difficult for her to translate and get a sense of the “tone” of the forum. (If her translating into English is anything to go on, I guess understanding simple English would be difficult enough, making it virtually impossible to “read” subtlety in it’s meaning).

                  I do wonder if she is really on the right forum for her, we’ll have to wait and see.

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                  • Openness
                    I have not sinned in the optional forum
                    And it is not hard to understand your words, and this has happened in the My second theme I have been understanding with a group of you out there, but this issue I do not see that anyone can understand me here
                    I have not abandoned you, I love to sit down and talk with you, but the study here very, very difficult to succeed and graduate and go to university, as you can read the About Our study via the internet
                    sigpicWhat do you want to know about Islam?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by I am a Muslim View Post
                      Openness
                      I have not sinned in the optional forum
                      And it is not hard to understand your words, and this has happened in the My second theme I have been understanding with a group of you out there, but this issue I do not see that anyone can understand me here
                      I have not abandoned you, I love to sit down and talk with you, but the study here very, very difficult to succeed and graduate and go to university, as you can read the About Our study via the internet
                      Nice to hear from you, wish you luck with your study.

                      Is it possible to translate you posts into better english??:):)

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