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Thread: UN Potential for Haiti

  1. #16
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelopster View Post
    Clearly Haiti is a failed state. With the highest level of poverty in the America's, a lack of a strong national government, a small police force universally reliant on the UN peacekeepers, and a devastated environment. Haiti could be the first chance for the UN to truly expand its power since its creation. The UN has never been more than an Aid Agency and a propaganda pulpit for the various powers.

    The UN has its first chance to "occupy" and fully run an international state of its own. Although others may point to the UN's failure to administer other states such as Somalia, Haiti is quite different. Geographically and somewhat politically isolated it is mostly immune external dangers. The people are multi- lingual providing the perfect state for an international government. It has economical potential in tourism, agriculture, and manufacturing.
    So you want "the UN" to be an occupying army, then institute a total planned economy on a sovereign nation that it has invaded, for no other reason than to have "land" of its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by joelopster View Post
    The UN needs to have its own territorial entity greater than simply a spec in the middle of NYC or Switzerland. It must be independent of foreign influence or the appearance there of. While some may fear a strong international government, I welcome it. World government should have a positive connotation not the negative fascist one it holds today. Haiti could be the starting point for this government.
    Who will pony up the cash for this invasion? Whose soldiers will this "UN" force be composed of? If I pay for the construction of this "UN" territory, or supply the men to form this "UN army," do I get a bigger say in the UN? If not, why should I supply anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by joelopster View Post
    Haiti could be the recruiting group for a world peace keeping force. Their economy could simply be based on world governance. The UN's rule over Haiti would not necessarily be democratic but rather a mix of technocracy and weakened democracy. This is not to say that the Haitians would not have rights. In fact, they could eventually hold international passports signifying their status. They would of course have all aspects of human rights, especially equality in front of the law. I cannot necessarily describe the government because of course I am describing a perfect scenario.
    Personally I do not believe this is possible in comparison to how much I want this to occur. Fear of loss of sovereignty for all states not only the Haitians.
    The capital necessary to create this state would exceed basic UN finances. Finally the UN's lack of real power. However, the potential remains for this international state to exist.
    Haiti, or this "UN nation" will merely be a soldier factory. The people contribute nothing productive to the world. They provide nothing. They manufacture nothing. They will be UN slaves.

    Quote Originally Posted by joelopster View Post
    The world could come to see the extent of Haiti's humanitarian crisis, existing without the January earthquake and place it under UN control permanently. A one time investment in the UN by all states totaling nearly 100 billion over 10-20 years. The chance by small states to have the UN escape the confines of the current international power structure (most notably the unequal and hypocritical UN security council).
    I am posting this to see peoples reactions to the idea of a strengthened and independent UN. Please feel free to comment as you wish.

    Haiti and the Dominican Republic: A Tale of Two Countries - Yahoo! News
    A final question exists: who makes up the "UN" policies? Why should I (the Haitian people) submit myself to this "world rule?" Why should I (the financiers) spend the cash if I can't get a bigger say in the world's affairs?

    UN is a great place for people to gather and chat. It can do some good at combating infectious diseases and coordinate disaster relief. It's not very useful for anything else due to conflicting national interests.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Haiti, or this "UN nation" will merely be a soldier factory. The people contribute nothing productive to the world. They provide nothing. They manufacture nothing. They will be UN slaves.
    The matter of the UN even having soldiers at all is a controversial one. The UN currently has no standing army, so all its peacekeeping operations are conducted by the soldiers of its member nations.

    Training, equipping, and using a permanent military seems like it would be difficult for the UN, and would be controversial due to the UN's "swords to plowshare's" emphasis. For a organization dedicated to peace, and one which seems to seek diplomacy over conflict, having a standing army might seems a bit hypocritical.


    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    UN is a great place for people to gather and chat. It can do some good at combating infectious diseases and coordinate disaster relief. It's not very useful for anything else due to conflicting national interests.
    I agree with you whole-heartedly. This was one of the reasons why the League of Nations failed and it has been a limiting factor in the success of the UN.
    USNA 2014?

  3. #18
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Clearly Haiti is a failed state. With the highest level of poverty in the America's, a lack of a strong national government, a small police force universally reliant on the UN peacekeepers, and a devastated environment. Haiti could be the first chance for the UN to truly expand its power since its creation. The UN has never been more than an Aid Agency and a propaganda pulpit for the various powers.
    So expand the power of third world dictators who use the UN as a propagnda pulpit.

    The UN has its first chance to "occupy" and fully run an international state of its own. Although others may point to the UN's failure to administer other states such as Somalia, Haiti is quite different. Geographically and somewhat politically isolated it is mostly immune external dangers.

    The people are multi- lingual providing the perfect state for an international government. It has economical potential in tourism, agriculture, and manufacturing.
    Problem is Haiti is full of Haitians.

    The UN needs to have its own territorial entity greater than simply a spec in the middle of NYC or Switzerland. It must be independent of foreign influence or the appearance there of.

    While some may fear a strong international government, I welcome it. World government should have a positive connotation not the negative fascist one it holds today. Haiti could be the starting point for this government.
    WTF, so expand the power of third world dictators at the expense of our sovereignty.

    Haiti could be the recruiting group for a world peace keeping force. Their economy could simply be based on world governance. The
    Gurkhas for a one world government.

    This is not to say that the Haitians would not have rights. In fact, they could eventually hold international passports signifying their status. They would of course have all aspects of human rights, especially equality in front of the law. I cannot necessarily describe the government because of course I am describing a perfect scenario.
    And yet the UN is full of states which give no rights to their own public's.

    The world could come to see the extent of Haiti's humanitarian crisis, existing without the January earthquake and place it under UN control permanently. A one time investment in the UN by all states totaling nearly 100 billion over 10-20 years. The chance by small states to have the UN escape the confines of the current international power structure (most notably the unequal and hypocritical UN security council).
    Why the **** would I want my tax dollars to fund an army to be used against my interests. Why would I fund an army to do the bidding of Chavez.

    I am posting this to see peoples reactions to the idea of a strengthened and independent UN. Please feel free to comment as you wish.
    In other words you hate America...
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    So expand the power of third world dictators who use the UN as a propagnda pulpit.

    The UN has its first chance to "occupy" and fully run an international state of its own. Although others may point to the UN's failure to administer other states such as Somalia, Haiti is quite different. Geographically and somewhat politically isolated it is mostly immune external dangers.



    Problem is Haiti is full of Haitians.

    The UN needs to have its own territorial entity greater than simply a spec in the middle of NYC or Switzerland. It must be independent of foreign influence or the appearance there of.



    WTF, so expand the power of third world dictators at the expense of our sovereignty.



    Gurkhas for a one world government.



    And yet the UN is full of states which give no rights to their own public's.



    Why the **** would I want my tax dollars to fund an army to be used against my interests. Why would I fund an army to do the bidding of Chavez.



    In other words you hate America...
    Why do you think I hate America? How would funding the UN create an army to do the bidding of Chavez. We paying for it generally hints at us controlling it. And also I dont appreciate the statement against Haitians and maybe you need to read up one why their nations is so ****ed up right now.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelopster View Post
    Why do you think I hate America? How would funding the UN create an army to do the bidding of Chavez. We paying for it generally hints at us controlling it. And also I dont appreciate the statement against Haitians and maybe you need to read up one why their nations is so ****ed up right now.
    The US is one of the largest contributors to the UN on a purely financial basis, yet I'd hardly argue that makes it a US-controlled organization...

    I don't entirely agree with troung's rhetoric or the extremity of many of his statements, he does have a point regarding Haitians. The rampant corruption and political instability in Haiti is in part the ultimate responsibility of the Haitian people.

    Haiti has similar problems to many African nations and I'd suggest that many of the similarities are caused by same attitudes attitudes, (although an equal portion of the problem also lies with a lack of opportunity).

    If the UN's going to intervene, let it be basic food, water, and shelter to meet the immediate needs, then focus on building education. Education means Haitians will have job skills, and understanding of hygiene, career opportunies, and a better sense of the kind of government and politics they deserve.

    Haiti doesn't have to succeed in a Western matrix of big factories and large GDP, but it has to find a way to be meet its own basic needs. I'd suggest that that solution is grassroots one, started by an outside source, but one the Haitian will take ownership of
    USNA 2014?

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