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  • #31
    Look at the time frame 1925-28.
    At the end of the civil war the percentage of ex tzarist officers was still high in the red army (i.e. our bellowed K. K. Rokossovsky ).
    The elimination of the political officer job and the implementation of the single command system had one purpose :

    Turning the ex tzarist officers into party members.

    P.s. Sovorov book focuses on the high ranking military officials , I however I'm more concern about the middle ranks.
    Last edited by 1979; 08 Feb 10,, 20:45. Reason: p.s.
    J'ai en marre.

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    • #32
      There's no doubt that the Party wanted to control the officer corp and it achieved that task.However even the Party needs people that do real work.Of course everyone is a party member.But there are party members and party members.And it happens that mid-low levels(those that had most professional contacts with the troops) were mildly touched by the purges.And those mid level happened to become the high level commanders at the start of the war.Thanks to the rapid expansion of the army,a company commander in 1936 would command a regiment in 1940 and so on.Think of the number of Majors leading rgt's or Col's commanding divisions.And that would have happened with or without the purges.But without the purges there would have been a great contrast between a corp commander whose previous job was commanding a rgt. for real and a corp commander whose previous job was commanding a corp at party meetings.
      Those who know don't speak
      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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      • #33
        Stalin thought he bought off Hitler and thus bought enough time to assert control and rebuild performance.

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        • #34
          mechanized corps commanders

          At the start of operation Barbarossa the soviet union had 29 mechanized
          corps (~ one for each field army ).

          1 MC-M.L. Chernyavsky-Leningrad military district
          2 MC- J.V. Novoselsky-Odessa
          3 MC - A.V. Kurkin-Baltic
          4 MC- A.A. Vlasov -Kiev
          5 MC-I.P. Alekseenko-Transbaikal
          6 MC-M.G.Khatskilevich -Western
          7 MC- V.I. Vinogradov -Moscow
          8 MC- D.I. Ryabyshev -Kiev
          9 MC- K.K. Rokossovsky-Kiev
          10 MC -I.G. Lazarev -Leningrad
          11 MC- D.K. Mostovenko -Western
          12 MC-N.M. Shestopalov-Baltic
          13 MC- P.N. Akhlyustin -Western
          14 MC-S.I. Oborin-Western
          15 MC- I.I. Karpezo -Kiev
          16 MC-A.D. Soklolov-Kiev
          17 MC- M.P. Petrov -Western
          18 MC-P.V. Volokh -Odessa
          19 MC- N.V. Feklenko -Kiev
          20 MC- A.G. Nikitin -Western
          21 MC-D.D. Leljushenko-Moscow
          22 MC-S.M. Kondrusev-Kiev
          23 MC-M.A. Myasnikov -Orel
          24 MC- V.I. Chistyakov-Kiev
          25 MC -S.M. Krivoshein -Kharkov
          26 MC-N.Y. Kirichenko -North Caucasus
          27 MC- I.E. Petrov -Midle Asian
          28 MC-V.V. Novikov -Caucasus
          30 MC- S.V.Golubovsky -Far East military district

          *The names in bold ended up KIA,POW,WIA.

          The soviet mechanized corps was usually commanded by major general leading 2 tank divisions and one motorized in standard formation 37,200 personnel.

          IMHO the corps commander quality was mixed:

          Vlasov,Ryabyshev,Rokossovsky, I.E. Petrov and Leljushenko are the ones that stand out.
          Others performance was more or less satisfactory.
          But I was intrigued by V.I. Vinogradov biography and don't know what to make of it at this point.
          Last edited by 1979; 09 Feb 10,, 13:23.
          J'ai en marre.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            Stalin thought he bought off Hitler and thus bought enough time to assert control and rebuild performance.
            Stalin also wasn't expecting the Anglo-French armies to get themselves routed in just a few weeks. He expected at least a year or two longer than he actually got.

            The purge certainly disrupted the army's high command and reduced its tactical efficiency.

            On the other hand, when the going got real bad, at least Stalin didn't have a cabal of generals plotting to overthrow the government and assassinate the commander-in-chief, which is what happened when the going got bad for Germany.

            Hitler milked a few years of extra military efficiency out of his aristocratic generals, at the cost of allowing people who hated his guts and despised his origins to hold on to some real power. Instead, Hitler purged his own party, even murdering some of his old frontline comrades, as a blood sacrifice to secure the army's loyalty.

            The political compromise worked okay while Germany was winning, and those aristocratic generals were getting nice little feudal estates carved out of Poland, and free masterpieces of art looted from France. But when the serious losing started, the fair-weather friends in his army's high command turned against their government.

            Stalin didn't have that problem. Moreover, because Stalin knew he could rely on the political loyalty of his well-purged general staff, he was able to accept their advice a bit more easily than was Hitler, who always had nagging doubts (and well-founded doubts) in the back of his mind whether his generals really wanted him to win the war.

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            • #36
              Rifle corps commanders

              The red army rifle corps is usually commanded by a major general; under his command are typically 3 rifle divisions, roughly-45.000 men.

              Odessa Military District

              14th- D.G. Egorov
              35th- I.F. Dashichev
              48th- R.Ya. Malinovski
              7th- K.L. Dobroserdov
              9th- P.I. Batov

              Kiev Special Military District

              31st - A.I Lopatin
              36th - P.V Sysoev
              49th - I.A Kornilov
              55th - K.A Koroteev
              15th - I.I Fedyuniskiy
              27th- P.A Artemenko
              6th - I.I. Alekseev
              37th- S.P. Zibin ??
              13th- N.K. Kirilov
              17th- I.V. Galanin
              8th- M.G. Snegov
              Last edited by 1979; 13 Feb 10,, 13:26.
              J'ai en marre.

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              • #37
                1979 (Zybin) Зыбин Семён Петрович, commander of 26th cavalry division
                We're so bad, we're even bad at it

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Andrey Egorov View Post
                  26th cavalry division
                  which cavalry corps ? or is it a independent formation ?
                  J'ai en marre.

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                  • #39
                    Well, all data I've found are fragmentary. It was Kiev Special Military District. His rank was kombrig. That's all I can say.
                    We're so bad, we're even bad at it

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                    • #40
                      Could you find anywhere support for one of Suvorov's theories.That those officers that had retained the old rank were fresh from prison.
                      Those who know don't speak
                      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                        Could you find anywhere support for one of Suvorov's theories.That those officers that had retained the old rank were fresh from prison.
                        Depends on which level you are interested.
                        From the army commanders Ponedelin and Podlas fit the description.
                        From the corps commanders Rokkosovski, Iushkevich and Sysoev.

                        But the wast majority of army commanders were komdiv or komkor back then.
                        Last edited by 1979; 14 Feb 10,, 14:54.
                        J'ai en marre.

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                        • #42
                          Western special military district.

                          4th corps- directly under 3rd army control ?
                          47th corps - Povetkin
                          21st corps - Borisov
                          28th-corps Popov
                          1st corps- Rubstov
                          5th corps- Garnov
                          2nd corps- Ermakov
                          44th corps- Iushkevich


                          Baltic special military district

                          10th corps - Nikolaev
                          11th corps- Shumilov
                          29th corps- Samokhin
                          16th corps- Ivanov
                          22nd corps- Dukhanov
                          24th corps- Kachalov
                          Last edited by 1979; 14 Feb 10,, 14:41.
                          J'ai en marre.

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