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  • Purges

    I'm currently reading V. Suvorov book : Очищение ( Purges )
    I have read only 4 chapters so far (out of 23 ) but already it looks like a interesting read .
    The author raises the question :
    Why did Stalin beheaded his army in 1937-1938 ?

    Your input please...
    J'ai en marre.

  • #2
    I liked it more than the others(perhaps because I disagreed with some of his points,like reaching Ploiesti in 3hrs ).I also doubt that Stalin was doing a big service to the motherland by promoting the likes of Mekhlis and Beria while killing Ejov or Blucher.But if the point about the number of politrucs and blue eyed boys that ended dead compared to veritable military officers turns to be true, it's something that will indeed change a chapter in WW2 historiography.

    p.s Me being a mere simpleton I also like his style.Funny reading while traveling with our super-fast trains.
    Last edited by Mihais; 14 Jan 10,, 22:08.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mihais View Post
      I liked it more than the others(perhaps because I disagreed with some of his points,like reaching Ploiesti in 3hrs ).I also doubt that Stalin was doing a big service to the motherland by promoting the likes of Mekhlis and Beria while killing Ejov or Blucher.But if the point about the number of politrucs and blue eyed boys that ended dead compared to veritable military officers turns to be true, it's something that will indeed change a chapter in WW2 historiography.

      p.s Me being a mere simpleton I also like his style.Funny reading while traveling with our super-fast trains.
      I fail to see any significant difference between Ejov and Beria ,Mihais.
      J'ai en marre.

      Comment


      • #4
        Suvorov says somewhere in the book that Stalin replaced the murderous scumbags that repressed the people,with new faces,more likely to be accepted and followed by the masses.Especially during wartime.My point in that matter coincides with your point on the matter.;)

        p.s Perhaps Ejov wasn't a rapist,so maybe there is a difference afterall.
        Those who know don't speak
        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm only at chapter 5 so i don't have a definitive image in mind regarding the entire book but i have read other material and i have a general opinion regarding this issue.
          Also a lot of doubts , here is one:
          Konstantin Rokossovsky , marshal of the Soviet Union, had bean accused of espionage and: " After interrogations that included torture resulting in nine missing teeth, three cracked ribs, the removal of his fingernails, and three mock shooting ceremonies, he was sent to the Kresty Prison in Leningrad, where he remained until March 1940"

          Things could had turned different for K.K. and the Red army could have lost one brilliant commander. (not necessary a bad thing from our point of view,,,;) )
          J'ai en marre.

          Comment


          • #6
            Generally speaking,Suvorov has some bright ideas,but tends to surround them with a mountain of crap.He's either truly independent and needs some $$,so a bit of exageration,a slight omission here and there serves his account well.Or he's not truly independent,so he does what his kind does best.Afterall,these guys learn about disinformation by the time they learn how to drink.But the gems deserve the digging.
            On a side note,good ole me had the pleasure of attending a lecture a month ago by Army General(ret.) M.A Gareev and MG(ret) A.M Zolotarov,from the Historical Dept. of our brotherly army.When it came to answer(after the meeting,on the hallway) about the RKKA deployments in Bessarabia before June '41 as well as about the border incidents,the (ex)comrades said-''OIL".
            q.e.d
            Those who know don't speak
            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

            Comment


            • #7
              I remembered about Pavel Dybenko.The hero that could not speak ''Americanish".What an a.....le was Stalin,to kill such a lad.Strictly from our pov.

              Boy,what a laugh I had.
              Those who know don't speak
              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                Suvorov says somewhere in the book that Stalin replaced the murderous scumbags that repressed the people,with new faces,more likely to be accepted and followed by the masses.Especially during wartime.My point in that matter coincides with your point on the matter.;)

                p.s Perhaps Ejov wasn't a rapist,so maybe there is a difference afterall.
                What men like the Paedophile and murderer Beria.

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                • #9
                  The whole Soviet regime was pure evil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shakespeare
                    must be really proud...
                    J'ai en marre.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey,I like the spirit.
                      Those who know don't speak
                      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        army commanders

                        The USSR had enter in ww2 with 28 field army's ;

                        1 army - Vasiliev
                        2 army - Teryokhin
                        3 army- Kuznetzov
                        4 army- Korobkov
                        5 army - Potatov
                        6 army - Muzicenko
                        7 army - Gorelenko
                        8 army - Ivanov
                        9 army - Cherevicenko
                        11 army -Morozov
                        12 army- Ponedelin
                        13 army- Filatov
                        14army - Frolov
                        15 army- ??? (far east)
                        16 army- Lukin
                        17 army -??? (Transbaikal)
                        18 army -Smirnow
                        19 army -Konev
                        20 army-Remezov
                        21 army -Gerasimenko
                        22 army -Ershakov
                        23 army- Pshennikov
                        24 army- Kalinin
                        25 army-Parusinov
                        26 army- Kostenko
                        27 army-Berzarin
                        28 army-Kacealov


                        The post of army commander in the Red Army is not a small thing, the commander has at his disposal typically 2 rifle corps and one mechanized corps , at all over 120.000 men. The prospects for promotion are big , Konev for instance rose to the rank of marshal.
                        Now, how about the others ?
                        Not so lucky I'm afraid...:P
                        Last edited by 1979; 20 Jan 10,, 18:45.
                        J'ai en marre.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well maybe Konev was lucky , after all , not all army commanders have what it takes to be a marshall of URSS ( like Beria, Brezhnev, Chuikov, Tukhachevsky or Vorosilov )
                          But maybe the position of Front commander was in they're grasp...
                          No.
                          To be fair , 9th army commander Cherevicenko commanded the Breansk and south front before the start of Case blau.
                          Keeping the command that was given to them also was difficult task to achieve for most of them.
                          Last edited by 1979; 20 Jan 10,, 19:19.
                          J'ai en marre.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep,but division commanders like Malinovski,or corp commanders like our beloved Konstantin Konstantinovici rose quite fast.Many were staff officers like Vasilevsky or Bagramean also went up fast.Many of the army CO were captured or killed in '41 so unlucky chaps indeed.
                            Those who know don't speak
                            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                              Yep,but division commanders like Malinovski,or corp commanders like our beloved Konstantin Konstantinovici rose quite fast.Many were staff officers like Vasilevsky or Bagramean also went up fast.Many of the army CO were captured or killed in '41 so unlucky chaps indeed.
                              Look at the biography of the army commanders that held they're position in 1941.
                              They served either on the karelian front, basarabia, Mongolia, etc...
                              or they're command was wiped out and for one reason or another they were given command of a new soviet army.
                              If indeed competent commander could only be found at corps or division level than maybe , just maybe , Stalin purges did not cut as deep as they should have.
                              Last edited by 1979; 20 Jan 10,, 20:33.
                              J'ai en marre.

                              Comment

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