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Thread: Heel angle

  1. #1
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    Heel angle

    Can anyone help me with documentation for the maximum heel angle of a South Dakota class battleship during a high speed turn?

    I know Yamato had a 9 degree heel angle so I figure it would be similar?

    If not known can anyone help me figure out the formula to calculate the maximum heel angle at full speed. I believe it has to do with the length beam ratio.

    If South Dakota class is not known maybe North Carolina or Iowa class as a referance to see if they were similar to Yamato? Would the heel angle for these ships exceed 10 degrees? I believe the hoists for the main battery can operate with a list of 15 degrees but an not completely sure of this as well.

    On NavSource there is a good photo of Indiana heeling to port during a full speed turn. A significant area of her red paint normally below the waterline is clearly visable.

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    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    USS Iowa at "heel" during a high speed run.
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    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Had to resurrect my Algebra brain cells. They have been alseep for few years from now.

    The photos are great showning water just running over the deck edge. This gives a definite clue as to the angle of heel.

    As you know, An Iowa class battelship at full load has an only 18-foot feeboard. Heeling over the full 18 feet to cause the decks to wash over you can use plain trigonmetry assuming the deck is 108 feet wide and would be the hypotinuse of the triangle.

    That gives an angle of heel at 9.59 degrees.

    At least in that photo. I have been told by one of our top engineers that an Iowa class BB could take up to a 45 degree roll without capsizing. But that's with a full load of fuel and ammuniton that is set way down below the center of gravity of the ship (though I would not one to be aboard during that extreme of a roll). I trust Jim's analysis as he worked in our Scientific Section at the time doing such calculation on the New Jersey.
    Last edited by RustyBattleship; 14 Jan 10, at 20:19.
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    "White knuckle" moments.)

    The highest recorded roll for the New Jersey I believe was 29 degrees.
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    Hows this for a starboard roll, USS Cowpens CVL-25 during hurricane Cobra 1944.
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    That one guy looks way too happy about things.
    Where the heck was this photographer?

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    Military Professional dundonrl's Avatar
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    my great uncle was onboard the USS Dewey DD 349 during "Halsey's Typhoons" her inclinometers (measure pitch and roll) would go to I think 75 degrees, and she went WAY past them.. (Uncle Tom said she went to an 89 degree roll) and came back.. talk about walking on the bulkheads..


    Yorden: Yeah. And I was up in the...all the chiefs and officers were all up in the wardroom because that is the main deck. So if she was going to go over we were going to be able to get off of her. I felt so sorry for the poor guys down below decks. Because now what had happened we had a hatch over the main deck right over the main distribution board. And the hatch sprung a leak and the salt water hit the main board and of course, it blew everything. Now we're dead in the water, we have no generators, we have no power and we're rolling sixty, sixty-five degrees. You know you're holding on for dear life and with no lights on and those guys down in them compartments dogged down--they didn't have a chance. They didn't have a Chinaman's chance to get out of there. So I was up in the wardroom with the chiefs and the officers and I want on up to the bridge to see if the captain wanted me to do anything. So I got up there and he said "What can we do to increase our stability." And I said, "Well," I says, "cut the [Mark 33 gun] director off." I said, "I know it weighs seven tons and then we cut the mast off." He said, "Cut `em off." So our shipfitter shop and acetylene outfit is up in the bow of the ship. I got another set on the main--two sets on the main deck but you couldn't get to them because it was awash, you know. And when the ship goes like this you know you're holding on for dear life. So I went down to the wardroom and I asked for some volunteers to go up and get these oxygen-acetylene bottles. So this electrician and chief gunners mate (the GMC is my great uncle) said they go with me. So I gave them the acetylene bottle because it was the heaviest of the two and there was two of them and just one of me. And I dragged the oxygen bottle. Boy, you talk about a battle. Pitch black and you had to hunch about where you were in a compartment you know when you had to get over a coambing [bottom sill of a watertight door] you know to get back. Finally, got the bottles back to the wardroom and I had enough hose to get them up to the bridge. So I got up and tried to burning the deck only to find out it was made out of aluminum. So I couldn't cut it with acetylene. So I come down and told the captain, I says, "Can't do it," I says, "she['s] made out of aluminum." So I say, "I'll start working on the mast."

    So I got over--they tied a line around me you know so I wouldn't get washed overboard. And I got washed over a couple of times and they fished me back up you know. And I get back up there again and I try to light my torch and the wind was so strong it would always blow my flame out. I couldn't keep my torch lit. Finally the captain says, we were rolling about seventy degrees then, I mean we were really going over. And...so there was a liferaft right there off the portside of the bridge and I told the captain. I says, "Captain, if she goes we're going to get this liferaft over here." And be says, "She's not going to go. We're going to make it. We're going to make it." Kept assuring all of us on the bridge. "We're going to make it." Well, we finally made the big roll. We went on over, and the helmsman, the water was up under his arms. That's how deep the water was over the ship. Its stack was already off; it took the stack off. That's what really saved us, I think, was when we lost that stack we lost that big sail [wind-catching surface of the smoke stack acting like a sail] because the number 1 stack was a big stack and a wave just happened to hit us just right. It started to right us. And we quivered; it seemed like for about an hour but I don't think it was much over a couple of minutes that she quivered and she came back up again, you know. And when she came up she went back again but she did[n't] go quite as far because now the stack is off you know and we got less wind laying us over. So after about maybe twenty minutes, the barometer started to come up and we knew we were out of the worst of it. So we looked the next day, we're trying to figure out what we're going to do you know. So I started to finish cutting the stack off because it was laid over on the side and the commodore wanted to have a show place when we got into Ulithi alongside a tanker--a tender so they can take pictures of her. So we thought we were going to go back to the States.
    Last edited by dundonrl; 15 Jan 10, at 17:53.

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    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiornu View Post
    That one guy looks way too happy about things.
    Where the heck was this photographer?
    Good question, my guess would be a smaller craft or some sort of boom.
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    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Good question, my guess would be a smaller craft or some sort of boom.
    Nah, most likely that aft most tub on the port side catwalk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Nah, most likely that aft most tub on the port side catwalk.
    *I had thought the very same, then I thought they could be in the stern most aft gun tub.
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  11. #11
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Nah, most likely that aft most tub on the port side catwalk.

    "On 13 June, following an overhaul at San Francisco and training at Pearl Harbor, Cowpens sailed on for San Pedro Bay, Leyte. Along the way she struck Wake Island on 20 June. " Cowpens attacked Wake Island on two different dates!

    Was Wake island the "tune up" for naval ship heading towards Japan in WWII?
    I've read account of "Dixie" & Yankee" station carriers during Vietnam and it would seem Wake offered the same opportunity.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Was Wake island the "tune up" for naval ship heading towards Japan in WWII?
    I've read account of "Dixie" & Yankee" station carriers during Vietnam and it would seem Wake offered the same opportunity.
    Wake was in Japanese hands until the end of the war, and was left to 'wither on the vine' as they say. Usually carriers with green aircrews that were in the area would have their planes go in on Wake for target practice against live enemy targets.

    I dont know what you are referring to regarding Vietnam, as Wake was back in US hands and was a valuable airfield and base.
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    Roll & Heel aboard the Iowa class battleships.

    The clinometer, this meter measures both roll and heel. It will also tell you if the ship is listing or taking on water. The meter is located in the Chartroom annex behind the Navigation Bridge and Conning tower (Primary Conn) 04 Level.
    The first pic is of the Chartroom itself, the clinometer is located on the support on the upper right, the second is the clinometer itself. As you can see the ship sits nicely at dead 0 degrees. Also note the blue tile on the deck.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 29 Jan 10, at 15:10.
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