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  • #46
    Originally posted by Prof View Post
    Sigh. You got me. I just saw the owner of this somewhat eclectic gun/taxidermy/Harley shop demonstrate it to a B'ham cop. Check with leib10. I didn't know the problem had been corrected until his comment. The Cop said, "Guess I'd better get a Glock." This wasn't all that long ago, say 2003.

    Prof
    All I can say is he had to be operating the takedown lever, or something was broken.

    Jet Li did the move in Lethal Weapon 2- with your right thumb you depress the release button, at the same time rotate the takedown lever with your index finger. Then pull the slide off.

    In theory you could do the same with a Sig, push the slide back and rotate the takedown lever with your index finger.

    In either case, I imagine I could pull the trigger before someone was able to disable the pistol.

    I think Leib was thinking about the slide separation problem, which was actually a broken slide issue. This was "fixed" by milling a cutout in the bottom of the slide and mushrooming the head of a pin to engage the cutout. Then if the slide broke during firing, the back half of the slide was captured by the pin, and couldn't come back and hit you in the face.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Chogy View Post
      IMO they are fine, colorful, historic weapons, but the open frame and the "disappearing" hammer notch sight is never going to create a weapon with great accuracy.
      You mean like this one?



      Originally posted by Chogy View Post
      As a basis for an accurate cap & ball revolver, I think one needs to start with a Remington, Rogers & Spencer, etc. And from there, loading must be extremely consistent between chambers, right on down to the grease used to prevent chain-firing, which can be quite exciting if it happens... I've had it happen once. Fire flashes to an adjacent chamber, emptying it while not inline with the barrel. This is why shoulder-stocked revolvers of this type must NEVER be held with the free hand forward of the cylinder.
      Oooh, I will have to remember that one.

      Originally posted by Chogy View Post
      Slightly oversized lead balls help a bit, but unless you want to spend a lot of time with it, I think they are best used for fun plinking at imaginary Johnny Rebs or Yanks, depending upon your mindset or geography. ;)
      I think I used oversized lead balls last time. There was always a lead ring after I loaded each chamber.
      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by highsea View Post
        All I can say is he had to be operating the takedown lever, or something was broken.

        Jet Li did the move in Lethal Weapon 2- with your right thumb you depress the release button, at the same time rotate the takedown lever with your index finger. Then pull the slide off.

        In theory you could do the same with a Sig, push the slide back and rotate the takedown lever with your index finger.

        In either case, I imagine I could pull the trigger before someone was able to disable the pistol.

        I think Leib was thinking about the slide separation problem, which was actually a broken slide issue. This was "fixed" by milling a cutout in the bottom of the slide and mushrooming the head of a pin to engage the cutout. Then if the slide broke during firing, the back half of the slide was captured by the pin, and couldn't come back and hit you in the face.
        I don't know much about Jet Li or his movies. I just know that a big, fat gun, scooter & dead animal store owner snatched the slide & barrel off a cop's M92(?) after he suggested that the cop point his gun at him. I saw it happen. Then heard him explain what happened to the gun's owner, who was somewhat distressed.

        While it was obviously that sort of proposal that ought to predict an unexpected outcome to the wary, such as "I'll bet you $2 that I can tell you where you got your shoes. You got'em on your feet, Har, Har", I don't think that he did it for my benefit, especially since I'd never been there before & he wasn't talking to me, but I suppose anything's possible. I'm not paranoid enough to suspect he arranged for a police officer with a malfunctioning pistol to appear just in time to collude in flummoxing a total stranger.

        I think you've crossed a line, here. Check with leib10.

        Prof

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Prof View Post
          There you go. "Sir" is a fine initial salutation when directed at someone so obviously drooling & senescent, but "Prof" is better from then on. So is "Doc." I do have to commend your good manners inherent in that "Sir", though. Not enough of that these days. Why, (pronounce "wah" down here) I remember (imagine a shaky, creaky elderly voice as opposed to my actual sonorous & slightly menacing baritone) when it was common. That was back when we used to walk to and from school uphill through the snow. Every day. Winter & Summer.

          I gotta see those clothes that a 9x18 won't go through. What do you guys wear in the Winter? Plate mail?

          Military handgun preference. I confess that I would have preferred retention of the .45. There is a logistics issue, but we fought alongside (so to speak) lots of people with other hangun calibers in WWs I & II & in Korea, & some in 'Nam. Lack of handgun caliber commonality didn't seem too much of an issue in any of those little bickerings. Alternatively, I'll bet that retention of the 1911 Colts with substitution of 9x19 barrels & mags would have been much cheaper than wholesale replacement by the Berettas. I ain't got anything against the 9x19mm. Of course, there are many people in these fora with much more informed & reliable opinions than I could possibly have. Rely on theirs when you get a chance. I'll be listening attentively.

          The surprise the Beretta had in store for you (didn't know that the problem had been corrected) was that you could snatch the barrel & slide right off a cocked Beretta, which rendered it a somewhat less effective weapon.

          .357: I love the things, & think that it's the most versatile hangun cartridge ever invented, & very useful as well in the little OU rifle/shotgun combos. I prefer revolvers for trips to the Weeds, & have several, but for some reason my Smith M15 .38 keeps getting dropped into the holster instead of the M19 .357. I repeatedly resolve to carry the .357 "next time" but never do. I currently have such a resolution. We'll see. Maybe as the feral pig problem here ramps up some more. However, it's not the blinding power of the cartridge (which is impressive but not god-like) but the extreme versatility of the revolvers chambered for it. The ability to run the gamut from light low velocity .38Spl FMJ loads & shotshells to full dress .357s with light expandable bullets or heavy penetrators is a major advantage when hiking/canoeing/camping.

          Prof (Doc)
          You are right about manners,would be great if more people are nice on the net(and every where else).Especially the teenagers,gosh they are(most of them)...................At least here,they are idiots.We use to have(I dont know how is now) very thick woven clothing for both police and military.The winter military clothing was very heavy and thick.The 9x18 doesn't have the power and shape to penetrate.One of the reasons soviets invented 7.62x25 back in the day.Even do they used regular 9mm.Whay the switched to 9x18 in the '50's I don't know.We had the same military uniform as SU for 45 years.And 9x18 against kevlar vest = .It might sounds "stupid" to you,but I like steel hand guns.The plastic or what ever the name of the material they are made of is called I don't like so much.I can't say I hate them,no they are great guns(Glock,Fn etc.).But the feeling of a steel pistol and reliability is just great,at least for me.And yes I had tried glock 17,didn't like it.I would love to put my hands on Kimber in .45ACP .If you ask me US should had stayed with .45ACP and mandate it for all NATO members.The 9mm might be great for police officer,but not for war,my opinion.But for the AR I agree on a intermediate caliber like 5.45,5.56,6.5G,6.8 etc.For hand gun I prefer bigger caliber,but for AR smaller.If you as my brother(he was PKM gunner),he will tell you .45acp in the pistol,.308 in the rifle.Different people,different preferences.Sorry for going of topic.Im going to the local range in few weeks,i hope I can put my hands on AUG :)
          Last edited by Imho; 08 Dec 09,, 21:32.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Imho View Post
            You are right about manners,would be great if more people are nice on the net(and every where else).Especially the teenagers,gosh they are(most of them)...................At least here,they are idiots.We use to have(I dont know how is now) very thick woven clothing for both police and military.The winter military clothing was very heavy and thick.The 9x18 doesn't have the power and shape to penetrate.One of the reasons soviets invented 7.62x25 back in the day.Even do they used regular 9mm.Whay the switched to 9x18 in the '50's I don't know.We had the same military uniform as SU for 45 years.And 9x18 against kevlar vest = .It might sounds "stupid" to you,but I like steel hand guns.The plastic or what ever the name of the material they are made of is called I don't like so much.I can't say I hate them,no they are great guns(Glock,Fn etc.).But the feeling of a steel pistol and reliability is just great,at least for me.And yes I had tried glock 17,didn't like it.I would love to put my hands on Kimber in .45ACP .If you ask me US should had stayed with .45ACP and mandate it for all NATO members.The 9mm might be great for police officer,but not for war,my opinion.But for the AR I agree on a intermediate caliber like 5.45,5.56,6.5G,6.8 etc.For hand gun I prefer bigger caliber,but for AR smaller.If you as my brother(he was PKM gunner),he will tell you .45acp in the pistol,.308 in the rifle.Different people,different preferences.Sorry for going of topic.Im going to the local range in few weeks,i hope I can put my hands on AUG :)
            Steel guns. O yeah. I have only 2 with alloy frames (S&W59 & the Son of SAM Special), & no guns with synthetic frames at all, although the Glock, or something like it, has obvious utility in nasty, wet, sandy or dirty military situations.

            Prof

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Prof View Post
              Steel guns. O yeah. I have only 2 with alloy frames (S&W59 & the Son of SAM Special), & no guns with synthetic frames at all, although the Glock, or something like it, has obvious utility in nasty, wet, sandy or dirty military situations.

              Prof
              Im sure they are not 100% steel guns-beretta,tanfoglio,kimber etc.But you got my point of my pistol preference :).What you favorite gun Prof-pistol,rifle,AR ?And caliber of course?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Imho View Post
                Im sure they are not 100% steel guns-beretta,tanfoglio,kimber etc.But you got my point of my pistol preference :).What you favorite gun Prof-pistol,rifle,AR ?And caliber of course?
                You're getting onto dangerous ground, here. The very question "What's your favorite (firearm/caliber) will lead you sliding beyond anyone's control into "If you could only have (number) (firearm type)" to splash into "If you could have only one firearm, what would it be?" I'm working on that. The way things are going here, a solution might be necessary, not just desireable.

                Personally,

                Handguns:
                S&W M19 .357 (If I didn't have my Combat Masterpiece I'd have to use the M19, right?) Got one.
                Browning Hi-power with my modifications. Got one.

                Rifles:
                .30/30 Winchester 94 (the one I have, new ones suck)
                Some good .30-06 bolt gun other than my 03/A3
                .308 M1-A
                .22 Marlin 39 (got one)

                Shotgun:
                12/3" Remington 870 with all the barrels & attachments I already have.
                12/3" side x side double with double triggers & paired barrels, 25" & 28" Screw-in chokes on both

                That ought to do it.

                Prof

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Prof View Post
                  ...I think you've crossed a line, here. Check with leib10.

                  Prof
                  Lol. Take it easy Prof.

                  All I'm saying is that Beretta slide assemblies don't just fall off the frame. If that was the case, people would be leaving them in the holster and drawing a bare frame.

                  The takedown lever has a notch cut in it that engages a lug on the bottom of the barrel. The slide assembly simply won't go forward unless the lever is rotated and the notch is lined up, or something is broken.

                  Your gun shop owner practiced that move I described until he had it down, then demonstrated it to the cop, that's all. I've done it myself, I am just not that good at it.
                  "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Whew. I'm glad to hear that. I'd hate to think that you were being tiresome.

                    Prof

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Prof View Post
                      I don't know much about Jet Li or his movies. I just know that a big, fat gun, scooter & dead animal store owner snatched the slide & barrel off a cop's M92(?) after he suggested that the cop point his gun at him. I saw it happen. Then heard him explain what happened to the gun's owner, who was somewhat distressed.

                      While it was obviously that sort of proposal that ought to predict an unexpected outcome to the wary, such as "I'll bet you $2 that I can tell you where you got your shoes. You got'em on your feet, Har, Har", I don't think that he did it for my benefit, especially since I'd never been there before & he wasn't talking to me, but I suppose anything's possible. I'm not paranoid enough to suspect he arranged for a police officer with a malfunctioning pistol to appear just in time to collude in flummoxing a total stranger.

                      I think you've crossed a line, here. Check with leib10.

                      Prof
                      Not questioning the validity of your story here prof because I have seen it done as well. Though not an easily learned trick or one that would be useful in a situation. I carried the M9 for the last year or so of my enlistment and I can guarantee that no one would have ever gotten close enough to me to utilize that technique without suffering a severe case of lead trauma.

                      I do have some concerns however about the cop who would unholster and unload his carry weapon, in public, to propagate some antics by another, regardless of who it is. I would also question his choice of firearm since he apparently was not aware of this "feature"(flaw?) about the Beretta 92, which in my experience, everyone who has ever dealt with one has heard of or seen it done, at least in a movie. I think it was also done in one of those ridiculous Lethal weapon movies with Mel (I love all Jews) Gibson.

                      As for the gun shop owner, I think he has too much time on his hands.:));)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Prof View Post
                        Whew. I'm glad to hear that. I'd hate to think that you were being tiresome.

                        Prof
                        Haha. Some here would probably say I'm tiresome most of the time...;)

                        But think about it- if there was nothing holding it back, the slide would just fly off the frame every time you pull the trigger and the slide comes back into battery.
                        "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                          Not questioning the validity of your story here prof because I have seen it done as well. Though not an easily learned trick or one that would be useful in a situation. I carried the M9 for the last year or so of my enlistment and I can guarantee that no one would have ever gotten close enough to me to utilize that technique without suffering a severe case of lead trauma.

                          I do have some concerns however about the cop who would unholster and unload his carry weapon, in public, to propagate some antics by another, regardless of who it is. I would also question his choice of firearm since he apparently was not aware of this "feature"(flaw?) about the Beretta 92, which in my experience, everyone who has ever dealt with one has heard of or seen it done, at least in a movie. I think it was also done in one of those ridiculous Lethal weapon movies with Mel (I love all Jews) Gibson.

                          As for the gun shop owner, I think he has too much time on his hands.:));)
                          Sniper:

                          Just a slow burn. Nothing serious.

                          Prof

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                          • #58
                            Honestly if you were close enough to pull the slide off of a semi auto, wouldn't you also be close enough to just push the slide back ejecting the round and holding it back not allowing another to come into the chamber?

                            Sure the guy could move his hand back at the same time, but that would have his barrel pointing somewhere into the ceiling or sky?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Maxor View Post
                              Honestly if you were close enough to pull the slide off of a semi auto, wouldn't you also be close enough to just push the slide back ejecting the round and holding it back not allowing another to come into the chamber?

                              Sure the guy could move his hand back at the same time, but that would have his barrel pointing somewhere into the ceiling or sky?
                              Well, I was just there watching, but I suspect that there is some sort of mechanical advantage inherent in pulling something toward you against expected restance over pushing something away from you without the automatic counterforce. Hell. I'm just an ex-squid & an eyeball witness. I've gotten some backchatter. 7thSniper is a pro & an ex-cop. As far as I'm concerned his suggestion above settles it.

                              Prof

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                              • #60
                                First... hmm, probably the blank-firing 37mm mini-cannon my neighbor had, for New Years. Age 5 or 6 or so. Then the usual bolt-action pellet springers at festivals, once or twice per year. Single-shot break-open air pistol at around age 14.

                                First real gun G3A3 in Basic, at age 19. Sitting at a table at the range, with the rifle fixed down for sighting in. Thing went consistently for seven left high when centered for ten.

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