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  • #46
    Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
    I get irritated at the people that ignorantly fly it upside down.
    Yeah, another strike against the "it's heritage" crowd. They can't even be bothered to fly the damn thing right-side UP!

    I guess the orientation of the points on those stars is interchangeable eh?

    I wear a small battle flag on the lower vest pocket of my leathers. I have a few others here and there but it is not something I make a big deal over. I make it a point to try to hang around people that are smart enough to know what it is about and the history with it.
    There's somebody that flies a truly gigantic Confederate flag (the battle flag/navy jack) from a towering flag pole somewhere between Sarasota and Tampa, right off the I-75 highway.

    I've never in my life seen such a flag with it's dimensions, not even the "Chevy dealer" flags can match it, I'm pretty sure.

    Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
    I too am irritated by the stupid fashionistas that wear it as an accessory. I am far more irritated by the Che wearers. Unless of course they know who he is and what he stood for, then I regard them as an enemy.
    Well said. I pretty sure that the Che wearers are the "use(less) fools" spoken of by Lenin.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • #47
      Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
      Indeed. And their website has a nice little revisionist section on "Southern Heritage" and the "real" causes of the Civil War (among other things) that makes me want to just spit in disgust.
      Wow, the Lost Cause narrative is alive and kickin' for that company.
      "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Julie View Post
        You commented about Dixie Outfitters, and the southern cross being put on the flag being in defiance of and for the North.
        I commented that I didn't think the young generation wore them for the purpose of being "defiant," but proud to be a Southerner.
        Let's get this cleared up once and for all.

        The sole purpose of this separate paragraph:

        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        The sole purpose of putting the "Southern Cross" on Southern State flags was a symbol of defiance and hatred toward the North. What a wonderful legacy to preserve!
        was to point out the motive of the Southern States in putting elements of the various Confederate flags on their own state flags after the Civil War as symbol of their hatred and defiance of the North, and how it's a horrible legacy for those State lawmakers and "heritage" groups to attempt to perpetuate in the "Southern state flag" debates.

        Nothing more, nothing less, nothing directed at you; You yourself said that you do not -and have no need to- wear or display the Southern Cross.

        Originally posted by Julie View Post
        Where you went with the rest of that I don't know, but my kids wear clothes from Dixie Outfitters, and I do not berate them for doing so. They live in the South, and it is a fashion statement, not a defiance statement.
        Good for you for not berating them for doing so. They'd probably look at you like you'd just berated them for wearing the planetary flag of Jupiter.

        Personally I think it's the height of ignorance to wear something like that as a fashion statement, but that's kids for you.

        Originally posted by Julie View Post
        I fail to see how a person can be "defiant" in ignorance of what they are wearing simultaneously. With that being said, when you approached that person about the issue, that's why they looked at you dumbfoundedly probably. They had no clue about what you were talking about.
        And, once again, nowhere did I say that I approached anybody speaking of "defiance".

        Whenever I've spoken to someone about a Southern Cross they're displaying or wearing, I am polite and stick to simple, basic and brief historical facts ("The CSA actually had three basic flag designs" etc)
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Shek View Post
          Wow, the Lost Cause narrative is alive and kickin' for that company.
          Kickin' like crazy. Emphasis on crazy.

          Did I say "spit" in disgust? I think the correct word is "vomit"
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            There's somebody that flies a truly gigantic Confederate flag (the battle flag/navy jack) from a towering flag pole somewhere between Sarasota and Tampa, right off the I-75 highway.

            I've never in my life seen such a flag with it's dimensions, not even the "Chevy dealer" flags can match it, I'm pretty sure.
            Google is my friend

            Larger Confederate Flag Unfurled Near I-75 In Hillsborough

            It's on the property of a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.
            The flag is 30-by-60-foot and flies from a 139 foot tall pole.

            The purpose of the flag is to commemorate CSA veterans. So if that's the purpose...why in the hell is that design being used? It's not the CSA national colors, nor a CSA battle flag. If anything he's commemorating the Confederate Navy. Rafael Semmes, at least, would be proud.
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
              Whenever I've spoken to someone about a Southern Cross they're displaying or wearing, I am polite and stick to simple, basic and brief historical facts ("The CSA actually had three basic flag designs" etc)
              Confed went into length about these flags long ago...maybe before you were even here. I know them all as well as their history, but I doubt my children do, or many that purchase those clothes in Dixie Outfitters. I would just keep an open mind about it.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Julie View Post
                Confed went into length about these flags long ago...maybe before you were even here. I know them all as well as their history, but I doubt my children do, or many that purchase those clothes in Dixie Outfitters. I would just keep an open mind about it.
                Since I've moved out of that particular neighborhood roughly 3 or 4 years ago, I haven't spoken a word to anybody about it, except probably here on the WAB.

                If somebody wants to walk around with something like that on their back, without a clue of what it's all about and the potential vibe they're throwing out, that's their problem, not mine.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                  Google is my friend

                  Larger Confederate Flag Unfurled Near I-75 In Hillsborough

                  It's on the property of a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.
                  The flag is 30-by-60-foot and flies from a 139 foot tall pole.

                  The purpose of the flag is to commemorate CSA veterans. So if that's the purpose...why in the hell is that design being used? It's not the CSA national colors, nor a CSA battle flag. If anything he's commemorating the Confederate Navy. Rafael Semmes, at least, would be proud.
                  Interesting. I read the article and then read the poll associated. I voted yes of course and found that of the 2013 votes, 89% said it was heritage, not a symbol of hate.

                  Does anyone here see the flag as a sign of hate?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                    Does anyone here see the flag as a sign of hate?
                    No, I don't get that kind of "vibe" from it.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                      Does anyone here see the flag as a sign of hate?
                      *shrug* I see it as bad history more than anything else.

                      Which, again, kinda calls the "heritage" claim into question. If you're so concerned about your beloved "heritage", then why would you fly a 30'x60' mistake?

                      If I was a survivor of the USS Arizona, and proud of it, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be wearing a USS Oklahoma Survivors Jacket.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        Some interesting info on the use of the flag today and history.......

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                          Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                          Some interesting info on the use of the flag today and history.......
                          Very good article, I've read through it many times in the past.
                          Fascinating how the CSA national colors evolved many times over a relatively short period of time.

                          The part that has always amused me a bit was the contemporary derisive attitude toward the Southern Cross design by CSA politicians, one of them comparing it to a pair of crossed suspenders.
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Drought

                            Originally posted by Shek View Post
                            I think the settlers of Jamestown would disagree with you about the "relaxed farming schedule" considering that they just about starved to death. I think it's instructive to see what land is used for today, and you see just as much, if not more agriculture in the "North" than you would in the "South."
                            Hmm. That brings up an important point. The Jamestown settlers probably were not accustomed to the drought conditions that often occur in humid subtropical regions. (The British Isles get much of the rain evenly distributed throughout the year, although about every 500 years drought occurs.)

                            And according to this 1998 article, the summer drought of 1606-1612 was pretty severe. Extreme Droughts Played Major Role In Tragedies At Jamestown, "Lost Colony" This was probably the cause of the "starving time" described by the Jamestown colonists.

                            The climate of the subtropical Southeastern US is conducive to large-scale agriculture because of things like higher rainfall and longer summers. However, most of the good farmland (and large-scale farms) is in the Midwest, where there is not much rain to wash away the top soil. Centuries upon centuries of buffalo droppings and other organic matter added to the topsoil and the low precipitation of the Great Plains make the Midwest America's Breadbasket.

                            I don't think geographic determinism is a very good explanation for the different cultures that emerged. The nature of the settlers is a much more powerful trail to explore.
                            True. The habits described by geographical determinism take a long time to manifest. Also, the Jamestown colonists did not come from a humid subtropical climate, nor the Puritans and Pilgrims from a humid continental one.

                            I believe that there is a big debt that Americans owe to the first English colonists and everyone else who risked adverse weather and wild animals to lay the foundations for future settlement.
                            Last edited by Crocodylus; 16 Nov 09,, 02:56. Reason: misclick

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                              My question is: do you extend this memory to your attitude to the way your nation behaves toward others & to an understaning of how others might feel about America?
                              Since we are here now............... Yes I do.

                              The reasons given for any war had better be good ones, yet we seem too oft through history and recently a willingness to slip into war without really good reasons. So called police actions, however popular during the cold war era, seemed to need even less reasons. More disturbing is when the action has started, to not finish the job and leave the region of country in chaos or worse off in the first place. Something we seem to have a habit of doing since Korea.

                              IMO, we did a better job of nation building with Japan after WWII than the south after the ACW. Disturbing indeed

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                                IMO, we did a better job of nation building with Japan after WWII than the south after the ACW. Disturbing indeed
                                Seems like total apples to oranges comparison to me, not to mention the occupiers of Japan were able to look back at the the Reconstruction era and very likely view it as a great example of what not to do.

                                Which makes subsequent US actions such as you described (since Korea)even more reprehensible.
                                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                                Comment

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