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Is the American civil war really over??

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    Being from Minnesota however, there is a stereotype of Southerners that isn't altogether that favorable. It's not particularly pronounced, really more latent (rednecks, ignorant, backward, etc.) Myself, I have a pretty favorable attitude toward Southerners on a personal basis. I don't see what's not to like about them ("hey, he's from down South, just by the accent, he must be a great guy!") Where I'm from we have a tendency to be more icy toward outsiders though outwardly nice when we talk with them. The way they treated you in NJ definitely fits my stereotype of what NJ/NY people are like though.
    That particular incident I experienced had me later in years wonder if it was a stereotype issue, or because the war that occurred between the North and the South. Have you ever heard of stereotyping between Easterners or Westerners? I haven't.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Julie View Post
      That particular incident I experienced had me later in years wonder if it was a stereotype issue, or because the war that occurred between the North and the South. Have you ever heard of stereotyping between Easterners or Westerners? I haven't.
      Julie,

      Might I suggest an alternative to the ACW as the root of attitudes to southerners, one that is a bit more universal. I'll leave it to the Americans hereabouts to tell me if I'm off the mark or not.

      First, the issue of 'regional stereotyping' is a very real one all over the world, but look at how it tends to go. There is a tendency for areas that consider themselves more affluent, educated & 'modern' to look down their nose at areas that are not. Add a clear basis for identification (an accent, for example) and it is easy for the prejudice to go from something abstract to something direct & personal.

      A clear example of this, & one I think relates directly to this issue, is the attitude of 'city folk' to 'hicks' from rural areas. In France I believe this is pretty much how Parisians view the rest of the country, and they are resented for it. In Sth Africa rural whites are often easily identified by their particularly thick accents & sometimes preference for afrikaans - the term 'yarpie' is not a compliment. England, with its complex class & regional relationships, the issue is even clearer. There is a long history of southerners & especially Londoners looking down on the poorer & 'coarser' North (these attitudes have more than once translated into violence at & around soccer matches). Further, the singsong accent of the West country would get you treated the same way as if your Georgia drawl in NJ. The English, of course, take it further. The 'working class' accents from parts of London were also a marker of lesser worth. I'm prepared to bet such distinctions crop up all over the world ('Ossies' in Germany, for instance). Few if any date from a war of any sort.

      Back to America. In the century after the ACW the south retained a separate cultural identity (and accent). As others have pointed out, decisions made largely by southerners resulted in a region that was poorer, politically ossified (until the 40s & 50s anyway) and socially backward. Whatever anyone might say about the racism in the North (or the large northern cities at least), it was not in the same league as the south. Events such as lynchings, the 'Monkey Trial' & violent reactions to civil rights simply reinforced such perceptions. These obvious differences made it easy to see the south in much the same way that metopolises see country folk - backward hicks. As you well know, the reality was a great deal more complex, but the whole point about caricatures is that they distort reality. There is obviously a bit more to it than this, but I think this is closer to the truth than any lingering triumphalism on the part of northerners.
      Last edited by Bigfella; 14 Nov 09,, 08:49.
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      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Julie View Post
        That particular incident I experienced had me later in years wonder if it was a stereotype issue, or because the war that occurred between the North and the South. Have you ever heard of stereotyping between Easterners or Westerners? I haven't.
        Stereotypes that come to mind for Northeasterners would be rude, loud, obnoxious, unhelpful, hurry, hurry, hurry, get out of my way, screw you, and so on. With California, a few different stereotypes come to mind. There's the classic liberal and hippie, our system is superior, everybody ought to know how cool and better where I come from is just by dropping a name (San Diego, San Francisco, etc.). West in between the Midwest and the coast... well, that's kind of an extension of the Midwest, and I don't think people from the Mountain West are seen as altogether than different from people in the Upper Midwest by people from the latter.
        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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        • #19
          Is the American civil war really over??

          The shooting has long since stopped, but how does it affect attitudes and cultural differences today.

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          • #20
            I started this thread to continue the offtrack part of this thread. Could one of the mods please move some of these over??

            Thanks

            http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/anc...tml#post692254

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
              The shooting has long since stopped, but how does it affect attitudes and cultural differences today.
              Judging by the sheer number of utterly ignorant a--holes driving around with Confederate Naval Jacks hanging off their pick-up trucks and bragging/claiming that it's their "heritage"...I would say "No" the Civil War is not over (in their minds) but regardless, there is no way in hell or heaven that the South is going to "rise again".
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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              • #22
                TH,

                7thSniper set this one up to take a discussion that sidetracked another thread. Any chance of using your Administrator/moderator voodoo & dragging some of those posts over here?
                sigpic

                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                • #23
                  No more than the residents of Istanbul/Constantinople(sp)... A million years ago, who cares?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    TH,

                    7thSniper set this one up to take a discussion that sidetracked another thread. Any chance of using your Administrator/moderator voodoo & dragging some of those posts over here?
                    Can you point me in the direction of the posts in question? :)
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                    • #25
                      http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/anc...ne-deal-3.html

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        Can you point me in the direction of the posts in question? :)

                        I would nominate the following as the main ones: 8, 9, 11, 14, 17, 20, 24, 25, 27, 31, 32, 34 - end of thread. Is that too many? Hope not. Let the voodoo commence!!
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                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                          Judging by the sheer number of utterly ignorant a--holes driving around with Confederate Naval Jacks hanging off their pick-up trucks and bragging/claiming that it's their "heritage"...I would say "No" the Civil War is not over (in their minds) but regardless, there is no way in hell or heaven that the South is going to "rise again".
                          I was at the County Fair here all weekend. There was a little hut set up containing confederate items for sale. Flags, car tags, key chains, etc. Is this what you are speaking of?

                          I've got a question...what do confederate items represent now to different people. Top referred to it as "heritage?"

                          Could it be other representations, such as State pride, State standing? Maybe something else. Maybe that person had a generation of family that died fighting in that war.

                          I think depending upon what those representations reflect, depends upon if it is an insult to someone.
                          Last edited by Julie; 15 Nov 09,, 16:40.

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                          • #28
                            so if Confederate Flags are ok in states that once belonged to the CSA, are Mexican Flags ok in States that once belonged to Mexico?

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                            • #29
                              Mexicans wave their flag anyway.

                              Confederate items have a ''cool'' air about them,as symbols of rebellion from whatever you think is the ''opressor''.
                              Those who know don't speak
                              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Julie View Post
                                I was at the County Fair here all weekend. There was a little hut set up containing confederate items for sale. Flags, car tags, key chains, etc. Is this what you are speaking of?
                                "confederate items" is about as vague as you can get. Let's be specific here: I'm referring to this flag, as seen, well...everywhere and on everything, like Flags, car tags, key chains, etc.



                                I've got a question...what do confederate items represent now to different people. Top referred to it as "heritage?"

                                Could it be other representations, such as State pride, State standing? Maybe something else. Maybe that person had a generation of family that died fighting in that war.
                                The people that I'm talking about, here in Florida, don't have a damn clue about "State pride", "State Standing" or their "heritage".

                                They fly the flag and think that it's the flag of the Confederacy, when in fact it's not. It's a bastardization of the Confederate Naval Jack, with one color (a deeper blue) thrown from one of the multitude of Confederate battle flags.

                                For many of them, especially the teenage and 20ish set, it's no different than the Guerrillero Heroico t-shirts depicting Ernesto "Che" Guevara: It's a fashion statement...because they sure as sh-t don't have a clue about the Civil War or the Confederate States of America. I talked to enough of them to know this is more-or-less the case.

                                They look at me funny when I briefly -and politely- explain the various flags of the CSA and their meaning, not to mention the meaning of the flag on their shirt, their bumper or hanging off their pickup truck.

                                Their glassy-eyed response is a vague "oh ok that's cool i guess"....the same kind of look given to a schoolteacher that's telling them about something they don't have a clue about, don't care about, will probably never care about and isn't it time for the lunch bell to ring because I'm really hungry.

                                I'll never forget the time I actually saw a neighbor girl with the 3rd and final CSA flag on her Dixie Outfitter's jacket. I asked her if she'd noticed the difference between the flag on her jacket and the ones all over the neighborhood. Nope. Hadn't noticed it but yes isn't that interesting.

                                "Heritage and Pride"? Sorry, I ain't buyin' it.
                                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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