Page 3 of 21 FirstFirst 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 307

Thread: Quetta, Balochistan

  1. #31
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by S-2 View Post
    It often cuts two ways. We comfortably accomodate allegations of state-sponsored terror here.

    "Hundreds of Baloch people have disappeared in what human rights organisations say are state-sponsored abductions."
    The Baloch insurgency was on peak when Musharaf was in power...and it erupted only because of his stupid egoistic decision of killing Akber Bugti...

    Conditions now are calming down. Talal Bugti(son of akber bugti) and Shahzain Bugti (grandson of Akber Bugti) are in mainstream politics and have alliances with Nawaz Shareef(From Punjab)...and they have said multiple times that they have no separatist intentions. Thats because they consider Musharaf their enemy not the state of Pakistan.
    And are following the legal path to avenge their father's murder


    The insurgents who are disrupting the peace there now are no more then terrorists who regularly kill university professors and poor labourers. And i will really be shocked and surprised if you dont call them terrorists.


    __________________
    By the way, i was born in Quetta. And have many ethnic Balochs and Brahvies in my friend circle.
    Last edited by Pak Nationalist; 25 Nov 10, at 10:21.

  2. #32
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Dec 04
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    3,960
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

  3. #33
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    It is a rule of investigation that whenever you are searching for a culprit or murderer you first investigate the person who has benefited the most from that crime.

    Now tell me which agency will kill a govt critic journalist and leave his body in open for everybody to see and that too with a note "Eid present for the Baloch people."...one that wants peace in Balochistan or the one that wants to create unrest..

    I'll choose the later one.

    I'll give you another example:
    Last year dead bodies of 4 prominent members of a baloch terrorist organization were found somewhere in balochistan for which the govt agencies were blamed...later in turned out to be a result of internal power politics in that organization.

    I accept the agencies were used for some illegal purposes in Musharaf's era, but now things have changed.

  4. #34

    Military Professional
    Military Professional S2's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 06
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    10,826

    Pak Nationalist Reply

    "The Baloch insurgency was on peak when Musharaf was in power...and it erupted only because of his stupid egoistic decision of killing Akber Bugti..."

    There were separatist revolts in Balochistan that reach back to the formation of the Pakistani state in the late 40s. The issues of separatism run far deeper than the transcedent impact of any recent political assassination.

    These issues are heightened by the demographic shifts experienced within Baluchistan since 1979. The influx of both Pashtuns and Punjabis have dramatized existing fault-lines and remain on-going catalysts for more upheaval.

    "I accept the agencies were used for some illegal purposes in Musharaf's era, but now things have changed."

    You know this with certainty how?

    "The Zardari government took a major step forward by acknowledging that human rights violations against the Baloch, including the "disappearance" of hundreds of people, took place during Musharraf's military government. However, the military has blocked attempts by the government to locate the victims and continues to exercise sway over the province through its intelligence agencies. Targeted killings by Baloch nationalists of non-Baloch settlers in the province spiked sharply in 2009, while reports of torture and arbitrary detention of Baloch nationalists at the hands of the military's intelligence agencies continued. In October, Shafiq Ahmed Khan, the provincial education minister, was shot dead. Baloch nationalists claimed responsibility."

    Pakistan Events Of 2009-HRW
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

  5. #35
    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Jul 08
    Posts
    697
    Quote Originally Posted by S-2 View Post
    However, the military has blocked attempts by the government to locate the victims and continues to exercise sway over the province through its intelligence agencies. Targeted killings by Baloch nationalists of non-Baloch settlers in the province spiked sharply in 2009, while reports of torture and arbitrary detention of Baloch nationalists at the hands of the military's intelligence agencies continued. In October, Shafiq Ahmed Khan, the provincial education minister, was shot dead. Baloch nationalists claimed responsibility."

    Pakistan Events Of 2009-HRW
    As it relates to murders, assassinations, disappearances and the like, 2010 may end with an even higher death toll than that seen in 2009 - that is the impression left by following news from that part of the World in the media and through various Baluch resources online. Even a cursory reading of online Pakistani papers will reveal a common theme, that being, a "worsening situation", "deteriorating situation" (in Baluchestan).

    Likewise, 2010 has seen a sharp increase in attacks on NATO cargo’s travelling the route to Afghanistan via Baluchestan. So much so that there has been no point in reproducing such reports from the press in this thread anymore since attacks on NATO convoys travelling through Baluchestan are common and to be expected.

    And unlike back in 2004 to 2006, attacks by Baluch nationalists on infrastructure such as railway tracks and gas-pipelines no longer seem to make the news much, if at all. Apparently because they are so common it isnt even worth mentioning.

  6. #36
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    As i said earlier there was a time when Baloch pot was boiling but now it is cooling down, and nothing cools down in the split of a second it takes time.

    As far as Pak Army is concerned there is a reason why at least fourteen thousand Balochs(and it is a big number considering the population of balochistan) chose to join Pak army. And in the passing out parade a large number of tribal leaders showed that most of them were with Pakistan. (almost leaders of all baloch tribes were there)

    You can give your "apparent" views regarding the attacks on infrastructure but the "actual" fact is that they have decreased dramatically.

  7. #37

    Military Professional
    Military Professional S2's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 06
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    10,826

    Pak Nationalist Reply

    "As far as Pak Army is concerned there is a reason why at least fourteen thousand Balochs(and it is a big number considering the population of balochistan) chose to join Pak army."

    You're not really using that article as a reference, are you? Here's what I read-

    "The largest-ever batch of 4,000 Baloch recruits passed out on Friday, showing a growing interest among youths of the troubled province to join the Pakistan army."-DAWN 30 Oct. 2010

    Now I'm nearly certain that if we explore the entire history of Pakistan we MIGHT find 14,000 Baloch citizens members of the P.A. Not the constabulary, mind you, or other such para-military organizations but the regular army. These young men from that "troubled province", however, would only be a portion of such. Actually less than one-third your purported number. Maybe far less if "batch" constitutes only some portion of those 4,000 men.

    Even so, as Governor Magsi indicates for this "troubled province"-

    “It should have been done much earlier.”
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

  8. #38
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    Last edited by Pak Nationalist; 26 Nov 10, at 05:40.

  9. #39
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by S-2 View Post
    Even so, as Governor Magsi indicates for this "troubled province"-
    Tell me one thing what will you call a boiling pot of water at 100 degrees Celsius, a "hot pot" i guess.

    Now let that pot cool down for some time and again note the temperature(lets assume 60 C). That too i presume will be called a "hot pot".

    Same is the the case with the term "troubled province" which is coming back to normal.

    “It should have been done much earlier.”
    It means he considers this event as something that has really made an effect.

  10. #40

    Military Professional
    Military Professional S2's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 06
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    10,826

    Pak Nationalist Reply

    "Same is the the case with the term "troubled province" which is coming back to normal"

    Normal? What does that mean for Balochistan's troubled history with its national government? The ebb and flow of Pakistani and Baloch history suggests no normalcy if we are to equate that with some benign and continuous condition of tranquility.

    "It means he considers this event as something that has really made an effect."

    Symbolically (and superficially) perhaps.

    I will suggest that afro-american and hispanic americans have used the armed forces and our city/state/federal civil bureaucracies as vehicles to upward mobility. Consciously intended as part of affirmative action or subconsciously as part of equal opportunity it has (and continues) taken decades to generate positive change. I surmise that change is measurable in slow but dramatic fashion. I'll leave for others to quantify that net effect but such change has occurred in an environment far less socially dynamic than Pakistan.

    Everybody must start somewhere. To that end I certainly applaud this belated effort at cultural integration. However, I read Governor Magsi's comments in an entirely different light than you and it remains to be seen how thoroughly and forthrightly such integration is accomodated.

    It is fair to say that minorities have had to date a difficult time finding a meaningful voice in a Punjabi-dominated Pakistani state.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

  11. #41
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    When i say Balochistan is moving on a track that leads to normality....I mean the unrest in the province is reducing and the masses of the common people are realizing their right of freedom. Remember that most of the common people in Balochistan have always been treated like serfs by their tribal lords who don't even let schools to be opened and allow their people have a national identity card just because of the fear that this will demolish their feudal lordships.

    And whenever some government (Pakistani/Iranian) tries to break their power, they rise up in the cover of so called "nationalism" in which public has no faith, and thats why they always fail.

  12. #42
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Dec 04
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    3,960
    Quote Originally Posted by Pak Nationalist View Post
    When i say Balochistan is moving on a track that leads to normality....I mean the unrest in the province is reducing and the masses of the common people are realizing their right of freedom. Remember that most of the common people in Balochistan have always been treated like serfs by their tribal lords who don't even let schools to be opened and allow their people have a national identity card just because of the fear that this will demolish their feudal lordships.

    And whenever some government (Pakistani/Iranian) tries to break their power, they rise up in the cover of so called "nationalism" in which public has no faith, and thats why they always fail.
    Pak, feudalism exists in the whole country, not just Balochistan. Major political parties, such as the PML, in Pakistan have been run by zamindars, jagirdars or generally elitists. And talking of such, Pakistan has never really abolished the Jagirdari system. It is only this divide which is giving rise to fundamental Islamism. So its a moot point to say that Pakistani governments goal is to abolish feudalism. It exists all over Pakistan, not just Balochistan.
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

  13. #43
    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Jul 08
    Posts
    697
    'Normalcy' in the Pakistani vernacular must translate into anarchy by all other standards. There is nothing 'normal' about the violence and various conflicts taking place in Baluchistan, to suggest otherwise is merely a lie. The Pakistani media, Baluch sources and international observers (human rights org's, NGO's, foreign media and so on) all contradict the assertion that there is anything like a returning 'normalcy' to Baluchistan. On the contrary, these sources indicate that violence, whether it be by the Pakistani state, Baluch nationalists, sectarian extremists or Taliban and affiliated networks, have all increased over the past year.

    The rhetoric of Baluch political figures likewise has looked increasingly hostile towards the Pakistani state.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Tuesday, November 23, 2010
    VIEW: Crime without a name —Mohammad Akhtar Mengal

    On August 24, 1941, two months after Germany invaded the Soviet Union, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill delivered a radio broadcast. Describing the barbarity of German police troops, as he called the SS, he said, “We are in the presence of a crime without a name.”

    And today Pakistan, a country that came into being in the name of Islam, is using the worst inhuman methods and committing unprecedented “crimes without a name”. The crimes committed against a particular ethnic group by the dominant ethnic community and its institutions need a new name — not ethnocide or genocide. Simply, Islamabad and its powerful establishment are committing Balochcide, a systematic act committed with institutional intent to destroy Baloch society and eliminate its educated youth and politicians.

    Balochcide is not limited to enforced disappearances and throwing away their tortured and bullet-riddled mutilated bodies. These practices include eliminating the few available moderate political Baloch voices one by one, destroying the very unique and liberal features of Baloch society, polluting the Baloch political system by supporting Taliban elements and encouraging a culture of “crimes in uniform”.

    If you go through the reports and evidence compiled and developed by reputable human rights organisations, think-tanks, experts, writers and researchers and then put it beside other information available — widely reported upon by the media and by others — we simply conclude that genocide (Balochcide) has been committed in Balochistan and that the government of Pakistan bears responsibility.

    The so-called civilised international community’s silence is adding to the severity of the human rights crisis. I am addressing this to the powerful west: just imagine your reaction if someone in uniform unlawfully abducts your child due to a suspicion that he believes in the political freedom of his community, and he is taken to an unauthorised detention centre and tortured for months without any access to family or a lawyer. Imagine in that kind of extreme environment, severe pain and suffering, bleeding and state of lifelessness, your son, in order to get rid of this slow motion death, agrees and accepts any kind of allegation and blame that the perpetrators put on him. And after accepting all these ‘allegations and crimes’, instead of producing him in a court — the perpetrators kill and dump him — exactly on Christmas day, a day meant to celebrate and enjoy life in Christian culture, not mourn. Furthermore, to inflict this pain on the family and community if the murderer leaves a paper with the dead body that reads: “A Gift of Christmas for the people (of a particular community).”

    This is exactly what happened on this Eid. not with one, two or three, but six families, communities and regions in Pakistan’s ‘Darfur’ (Balochistan).

    Six innocent young Baloch Student Organisation (BSO) activists, including a journalist, were killed and their bullet-riddled bodies were found in Khuzdar, Turbat, Gwadar, Kalat and Mastung during the three days of Eid. The slaughterers left a paper with the dead bodies that read: ” A Gift of Eid for the Baloch.”

    The victims of extra-judicial killings were identified as Lala Hameed Baloch, president of the Baloch National Movement (BNM), and Hamid Ismail. Hameed Baloch was a journalist and a member of the Gwadar Press Club. Two bullet-riddled bodies of Bashir Ahmed Lehri and Inayatullah, who had been missing for more than two months, were found in Kad Kocha area of district Mastung. The badly tortured and bullet-riddled body of a university student, Samiullah Mengal, was found near Ferozabad area of Khuzdar. Another body was discovered on Friday from Kapotu area of Kalat district and has been identified as that of Nasurrallah Baloch. “Nasurrallah had been missing for the last two months and had been whisked away by government functionaries,” relatives alleged (‘Six missing persons found dead in Balochistan’, Daily Times, November 20, 2010).

    All these killings came after Amnesty International’s recent demand that the government of Pakistan “must” investigate the torture and killings of more than 40 Baloch leaders and political activists over the past four months. “Activists, politicians and student leaders are among those who have been targeted in enforced disappearances, abductions, arbitrary arrests and cases of torture and other ill-treatment. The violence takes place against a backdrop of increasing political unrest and Pakistan army operations in Balochistan, south-western Pakistan,” said the statement.

    Sam Zarifi, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Director, was quoted in the statement as saying that Islamabad must act immediately to provide justice for the growing list of atrocities in Balochistan. “Baloch political leaders and activists are clearly being targeted and the government must do much more to end this alarming trend,” he observed.

    Is it not the case that killing and dumping of a large number of Baloch people in such a brutal fashion by military, paramilitary and intelligence agencies in Balochistan constitutes genocide?

    Is it not that the criminal silence of the apex courts and their human rights champion judges shows that the justice system too is working on an institutionally and ethnically agreed policy of ‘kill and dump’ the Baloch people?

    No doubt Islamabad’s brutalities and Hitler-like policies against the Baloch people will not deter us from continuing our struggle nor will these terror tactics result in suppressing our feelings. Our forefathers resisted for centuries and we will do the same to teach our children that truth and freedom is more important than the consequences.

    The writer is president of the Balochistan National Party and a former chief minister of Balochistan.

  14. #44
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    ^^If anarchy is what i call normalcy then Musharaf's time would be the most normal of all.

    As you yourself accepted above(well, you were still finding excuses).....the attacks on infrastructure in Balochistan have almost come to zero...this is a sign of decrease in violence In my dictionary. Saying otherwise is a lie.

    The reports violence are also far less then they were in 2005-08. People are getting jobs and even joining the army in vast numbers. In a decade it will like any other part of Pakistan.

    As far as Mr Akhter's is concerned, Balochistan National Party won only 5 out out 51 seats in 2008 elections.
    Last edited by Pak Nationalist; 27 Nov 10, at 10:03.

  15. #45
    Regular Pak Nationalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 10
    Location
    Pak Sarzameen
    Posts
    123
    Some people just find it very easy to blame others for their failures.

    Now I can't digest this theory that Mullah Umer is in Quetta. How and where did they obtain this information?

    I think if he really was there and US government felt that sure about it then this report would have first reached USS Abraham Lincoln or a Bomber pilot a long time before any media person.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pakistani attrocities in balochistan
    By OrdinaryGuy in forum International Economy
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11 Feb 06,, 18:54
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12 Jan 06,, 04:25

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •