Comparison: 7.62NATO rifles

[FOG3]

Yes, we've done this a zillions times, but I'm hoping to redirect the discussion on this in the ACR/AR thread to here.

The 7.62NATO ball round is ballistically identical to the 30-06 ball round used in WW2, even though the latter can be loaded to be a lot more powerful otherwise. It was developed as during the program that eventually led to the adoption of the M-14.

At the time the M-14 had to solid competitors, the FAL and the original AR-10. The AR-10's failure has a lot to do with people above Stoner insisting on submitting the test rifle with a composite barrel, over Stoner's objections, that failed under the cold conditions testing. You may or may not choose to believe Stoner's account that the people testing his guns were deliberately messing them up to ensure they failed.

The M-14's successful netting of the contract had a lot to do with Springfield Armory lying that they could produce the rifles using Garand tooling. They couldn't and had issues with producing enough to meet demand, leading to it's eventual dismissal from the place of main line infantry rifle.

The FAL was extremely popular although FN more or less shot itself in the foot when it refused to sell them to West Germany. The result was the Germans contracted the rights for the CETME back from the Spanish and produced what became the G-3, the FAL's main competitor.

So now that I've wasted your time talking about the history behind said rifles, you may continue gentlemen.

[bonehead]

Those are the rifles I contemplated when I made my last purchase. off to the full auto shoot I went:

The G3 is rock solid, but I was never comfortable shooting it.

The AR10 had the same problems as the rest of the line. It shits where it eats. That has been and always will be its downfall.

The M14 is a damned fine rifle and for me the most accurate of the bunch. The accessories are outrageously priced.

In the end it was the FAL for me. It works, It fits and is the most fun to shoot. After a short learning curve the ergonomics make sense. It does not balk when you do not clean it all the time. It is easy to fix on those very rare occasions and best of all, parts for it were available at a reasonable price. In short, it was the best all around rifle. DSA did a good job building my FAL derivative. The SA58 has been my hunting rifle for nearly a decade now and has never failed to bring home the meat.

[toemag]

I personally never had any hands on experience with the AR10, so I can't and won't pass comment on that rifle.

The FN FAL in all its variants was a very reliable personal weapon, and the only stoppages that I ever had with mine was while doing CQBR work where the range staff loaded a round backwards in a mag or two, forcing you to do a stoppage drill under pressure during your contact drills. Very easy weapon to maintain and hard to break.

The G3, what a rifle. I really enjoyed the DVaG shoots with that rifle, never failed to get full marks with it, unless I was on the range at Bad Reichenhall and the sun was low and behind the butts, literally blinding you and you couldn't see the targets.

@ Bonehead

I'd sure like to see some pictures of your Fal(s) and see how you have it/them set up for whatever purpose role you have them geared up to.

I have a plan for the near future but it isn't really worth going into at the moment as the L1A1's that were released onto the German market were crap and to expensive, but who knows what will appear in the near future .

Tony

[dwa]

the m14 was good ole boy politics. its a fine rifle but was behind the curve. the fal should have been adopted and fn offered to allow the us to produce it royalty free. it would have been even better if it remained chambered in the original cartridge. m14s are still in use not because they are the best thing ever but simply because we already had them.

[FOG3]

One thing I've noted the occasional person having problems with is the G3's charging handle. It works just fine, but I think it's not quite intuitive for people used to other setups.

So when you put on in a person's hands for the first time they can't quite figure it out. If my memory isn't failing me the proper procedure is flip out the handle, turn it down out of the notch, and pull it back. So probably just the whole flip out handle and safety catch aspects are what can weird people out.

[bonehead]

I personally never had any hands on experience with the AR10, so I can't and won't pass comment on that rifle.

The FN FAL in all its variants was a very reliable personal weapon, and the only stoppages that I ever had with mine was while doing CQBR work where the range staff loaded a round backwards in a mag or two, forcing you to do a stoppage drill under pressure during your contact drills. Very easy weapon to maintain and hard to break.

The G3, what a rifle. I really enjoyed the DVaG shoots with that rifle, never failed to get full marks with it, unless I was on the range at Bad Reichenhall and the sun was low and behind the butts, literally blinding you and you couldn't see the targets.

@ Bonehead

I'd sure like to see some pictures of your Fal(s) and see how you have it/them set up for whatever purpose role you have them geared up to.

I have a plan for the near future but it isn't really worth going into at the moment as the L1A1's that were released onto the German market were crap and to expensive, but who knows what will appear in the near future .

Tony

Look up -D S Arms That should give you a lot to look at. Mine is the plain SA58 standard rifle. Everything was brand new.Made in the U.S.A. so I did not have a problem with the stupid Clinton gun ban at the time. The stg models were from used parts, but that may have changed. The only thing I added was the heavy dust cap/scope mount. I use it for deer and occasionally for elk. It is a damned fine hunting rifle which takes all the temp extremes in stride. Of course it is also a hoot to just shoot, but I have slacked off a bit due to the price of ammo lately. Mine is not a tack driver, but at 200 yards I can lay prone and hit an 8 inch target 20/20 in 60 seconds so I am happy.

[Blue]

One thing I've noted the occasional person having problems with is the G3's charging handle. It works just fine, but I think it's not quite intuitive for people used to other setups.

So when you put on in a person's hands for the first time they can't quite figure it out. If my memory isn't failing me the proper procedure is flip out the handle, turn it down out of the notch, and pull it back. So probably just the whole flip out handle and safety catch aspects are what can weird people out.

Actually, as you begin to pull it, it flips out. You turn it up into a notch at the rear to lock the bolt open. There is a hole in the handle that I used to tie a loop of 550 cord through to assist in charging the weapon quickly.

[Blue]

I personally never had any hands on experience with the AR10, so I can't and won't pass comment on that rifle.

I'll save you the trouble. Its a POS IMO. If I had to choose a 7.62 bullet chucker, it would be the G3. If I wanted accuracy at range, M21. I honestly haven't found an FAL I prefer, but they are a reliable, durable weapon for sure.

[Albany Rifles]

I have fired 3 of them.

I fired M-14s in ROTC and some friends had M1As. I enjoyed shooting them and found them very accurate.

I fired the SLR version of the FAL/FN (Canadian and British). I liked the feel. Found it very easy to fire.

I fired the G3 many times...qualified a few times as well. I REALLY liked that weapon. I especially liked the HK sights...very intuitive.

[DragoonGuard]

I have fired 3 of them.

I fired M-14s in ROTC and some friends had M1As. I enjoyed shooting them and found them very accurate.

I fired the SLR version of the FAL/FN (Canadian and British). I liked the feel. Found it very easy to fire.

I fired the G3 many times...qualified a few times as well. I REALLY liked that weapon. I especially liked the HK sights...very intuitive.

I really liked the SLR version of the FAL/FN too.

This is me 19 years old - I made 55th in the ARA 'Hundred' at Bisley. (Got best young soldier with it too)

Really enjoyed that weapon........

[omon]

if i had to choose, I'd take m14. but in real life soldiers don't get to choose much, so I'd have what is issued, learn all its pros and cons. and just get used to it.

[Triple C]

One of the memorable OoEisms: "The best rifle is whatever I gave you."

[leib10]

I've fired the G3 and M14 (both civilian versions). I liked the G3 for its (relatively) compact size and the balance, although it was a tad loud. The sights were the best, very quick and easy to use.

The M14 was just as good, a solid hunk of weapon that is very accurate and easy shooting. I liked it just as much as the G3.

Haven't shot an FAL or a AR-10, although I'm sure the latter is similar in some respects to its smaller-caliber cousin.

[Blue]

if i had to choose, I'd take m14. but in real life soldiers don't get to choose much, so I'd have what is issued, learn all its pros and cons. and just get used to it.

One of the memorable OoEisms: "The best rifle is whatever I gave you."

Which is mainly why I lean toward the M14/M21/M25.....its what Uncle Sam gave me.:)

I carried an HK91 as a civilian contractor. As AR and Leib pointed out, the sights were the best. My only issue with it was the short stock and smallish grip. Once I was used to it though, all was well. I was also a big fan of the ARMS CLAW mounts I had for it. Made going from red dot to scope quick and easy and held zero very well.

[leib10]

Yup, the G3/MP5 claw mount system is very efficient and holds its zero very well in my experience. It requires an adaptor for Picatinny/Weaver, but it's well worth it. BTW, I would put those diopter sights on every weapon I owned (okay, maybe not EVERY weapon...) if I could. :)

The only thing I wish the G3 had was some kind of forward assist, but given the reliability of the thing, this is less of an issue.