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  • #61
    Originally posted by mikado View Post
    What an unhelpful contribution. If you disagree with Kermanshahi then counter his points.
    If you really want to see unhelpfull comments check the rest of his posts on the Iranian threads. All of his points have been countered.;)
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
      If you really want to see unhelpfull comments check the rest of his posts on the Iranian threads. All of his points have been countered.;)
      Fair enough.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Kermanshahi View Post
        It all depends if you value the UN's judgement, I don't.
        Great then we agree all the BS resolutions against Israel are not worth the paper they are printed on.



        Wait until the parliamentary elections come, all Shi'a parties have gone into a coalition together and Dawa has been kicked out, they stand no chance at all.
        we will see.

        The Syrian's hadn't recieved any of their important SAMs yet during that time. Also the Zionists came via Turkish airspace, the border there was only protected by AA guns, these guns fired but didn't have the range. The site which Israel bombed, was no reactor, it was not protected at all.
        1.The IAF flew home over the Syrian capitol, are you going to claim it was undefended? The Syrian ADA network was disabled, the reason only guns fired is because they were under manual direction and control.

        2. The site was located behind Damascus vs a conventional attack it was protected by the thickest part of the Syrian ADA network. They just forgot to defend against an attack from the Turkish side. They probalby thought it couldn't be donw.

        3. The IAEA found traces of uranium.

        4. A year earlier during the 2006 Lebanon War the IAF overflew Damascus as well.



        Still, despite the fact that you can only vote for approved candidates, religion and ethnicity doesn't make someone's vote worth 2x or 3x more than someone else's, like in Lebanon.
        Iran uses weighted votes as well.

        Armenian Christians 1 seat per 25,000 members, cannot hold high office
        Jews 1 seat per 100,000 members, cannot hold high office
        Zorostarians 1 seat per 22,000 members, cannot hold high office
        Bahai- no reserved seats, cannot hold office.
        Muslim- 1 seat per 234,000 members CAN hold high office.

        Yes, well, Iran is almost a completely Shi'a state, you could have hardly put a Sunni in charge there. And by the time the Americans got involved there was already a Shi'a king.
        Your ignoring the fact that the clerics created the US enemy that did not exist prior to the hostage taking.


        But in other states such as Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Afghanistan, ect. you always supported Sunnis over the Shi'a and never showed slightest interests in the vast human rights violations commited by the Sunni dictators against their Shi'a citizens.
        You work with what you have.

        Iran had no responsibility for this.
        Iranian money allowed it.



        Even if you wrongly want to blame that attack in Argentina on Hezbollah, it wouldn't account for 2%.
        There are other attacks, thats just the most famous.

        Besides, these kind of attacks on civilians are against Shi'a religion. The Wahabis however (Bin Laden's group) see it as their responsibility as good Muslims to kill all Shi'a, Christians, Jews and other "infidels" (including all Sunnis which don't think like them).
        Somebody better tell A-jad and the Supreme Leader because they don't think so.

        There is no proof that Iran has done anything so far, in their nuclear program which is not within their international right to do.
        secret facilities combined with a refusal to end enrichment while pursuing an aggressive ballistic missile policy. If it quacks, has feathers and likes water its probably a duck.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by zraver View Post
          Great then we agree all the BS resolutions against Israel are not worth the paper they are printed on.
          They certainly aren't.

          1.The IAF flew home over the Syrian capitol, are you going to claim it was undefended? The Syrian ADA network was disabled, the reason only guns fired is because they were under manual direction and control.
          They dropped their fuel tanks in Turkey on the way back.

          2. The site was located behind Damascus vs a conventional attack it was protected by the thickest part of the Syrian ADA network. They just forgot to defend against an attack from the Turkish side. They probalby thought it couldn't be donw.
          No it wasn't.


          3. The IAEA found traces of uranium.
          Which I heared, came from Israeli bombes

          4. A year earlier during the 2006 Lebanon War the IAF overflew Damascus as well.
          But they didn't make the same kind of claims as in 2007.

          Iran uses weighted votes as well.

          Armenian Christians 1 seat per 25,000 members, cannot hold high office
          Jews 1 seat per 100,000 members, cannot hold high office
          Zorostarians 1 seat per 22,000 members, cannot hold high office
          Bahai- no reserved seats, cannot hold office.
          Muslim- 1 seat per 234,000 members CAN hold high office.
          In Iran seats are reserved for religious minorities which are to small to win a seat otherwise.
          However in Lebanon Christians which are 30% at most get 50% of the seats and Sunnis (which are less than half of the Shi'a) get as many seats as the Shi'a.

          Your ignoring the fact that the clerics created the US enemy that did not exist prior to the hostage taking.
          The hostage taking was done because they were plotting another military coup.

          You work with what you have.
          You meen keeping Sunni dictators in power and letting them commit as many crimes against Shi'a as they want without complaint.

          Iranian money allowed it.
          This bombing was wrongly blamed on Iran, Iranians had no involvement.

          There are other attacks, thats just the most famous.
          Suicide bombings in the West? By Shi'as?

          Somebody better tell A-jad and the Supreme Leader because they don't think so.
          Well, they have always expressed this view.

          secret facilities
          You mean like those secret facilities which Iraq had, which have still not been found?

          combined with a refusal to end enrichment
          Which is within' Iran's rights to do as per NPT.

          while pursuing an aggressive ballistic missile policy. If it quacks, has feathers and likes water its probably a duck.
          America doesn't want us to build Ballistic Missiles because it makes the Iranian military stronger, but they built ballistic missiles themselfes and so do many of their allies like Israel, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, ect.

          Comment


          • #65
            America doesn't want us to build Ballistic Missiles because it makes the Iranian military stronger, but they built ballistic missiles themselfes and so do many of their allies like Israel, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, ect.

            *No Bob, Its because NOBODY trusts the crackpot regime with the means to threaten its neighbors that dont bother Iran at all. Only Irans interests outside of Iran that are involved in terrorism. How Ironic! If they cant treat their own people descently (which the world has watched time and time again) then how should the world view Iran when it comes to her neighbors including the Israeli's. They cant be trusted and the world wont trust them period until they give up the rhetoric, funding and training of terrorists and the weapons program. Until then she can enjoy isolation just like North Korea does. The ball is on their court, we have nothing to prove to the world because we all see it day in day out (all countries). But Iran and North Korea have much to prove to the world before they will gain the smallest scrap of trust.

            Bob, its no secret and it hasnt been for some time where that technology is coming from. Lets just say the country thats supplying it is far behind in ballistic missle technology herself and enjoys the propghanda boastfull lie routine as much as Iran does. Its not the ballistic missle technology that those aligned fear (trust me we have systems 1000x better) its the fact of what they can deliver, a nuclear warhead. Something Iran wont get for along time to come, if at all. And you can deny all you want but it wont change the outcome.
            Last edited by Dreadnought; 03 Nov 09,, 16:04.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Kermanshahi View Post
              They dropped their fuel tanks in Turkey on the way back.
              Thats kind of hard to do since they flew back over Damascus.



              No it wasn't.
              Yes it was, the most likely route to the site had to pass over the ADA sites defending Damscus, Syria however forgot to close the back door.

              Which I heared, came from Israeli bombes
              For what possible purpose? If its not a nuclear bomb uranium serves no puropose in explosvie devices.



              But they didn't make the same kind of claims as in 2007.
              Thats becuase the point of the excercise- to fly Jewish jets above a hostile Arab capitol with complete disrgard for the capitols air defense systems in order to send a message was delivered lound and clear.

              In Iran seats are reserved for religious minorities which are to small to win a seat otherwise.
              I have any idea- vote on the candidate and remove rleigious litmus tests. The religious minorites in America do just fine without reserved seats.

              However in Lebanon Christians which are 30% at most get 50% of the seats and Sunnis (which are less than half of the Shi'a) get as many seats as the Shi'a.
              Christians are about 40% of the population, Sunni and Shia are both about 25%. Thus Christianity remains the dominant faith if you count the 2 versions of Islam as seperate sects. More importantly none of the 3 major groups wants a new census in order to avoid sliding back into war.All threee major players agree to this power sharign arrangement.

              The hostage taking was done because they were plotting another military coup.
              Do you really think Jimmy Carter would plot a coup, or that US shreddign technology could be so easily pieced back together? I bet you own a lot of bridges. The documents were forgeries designed to topple the populatist government and gain the Islamist power and it worked.

              This bombing was wrongly blamed on Iran, Iranians had no involvement.
              Iran funded it.

              Suicide bombings in the West? By Shi'as?
              Bombings, rocket attacks- if Iran funds it and its done I ran gets the blame.

              You mean like those secret facilities which Iraq had, which have still not been found?
              No like the one Iran was compelled to reveal recently.



              Which is within' Iran's rights to do as per NPT.
              If Iran'
              s program had been above board then yes, but it wasn't and so its rights were lost. Your arguing that a law breaker should be allowed to keep thier ill gotten gains. No legal system in the world would agree with you.

              http://www.isis-online.org/publicati...violations.pdf

              America doesn't want us to build Ballistic Missiles because it makes the Iranian military stronger, but they built ballistic missiles themselfes and so do many of their allies like Israel, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, ect.
              We don't want you building missiles becuase you use them to issue threats in bald faced attmepts to coerce your neighbors and the region.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                Christians are about 40% of the population, Sunni and Shia are both about 25%. Thus Christianity remains the dominant faith if you count the 2 versions of Islam as seperate sects.
                That's rather convenient, lumping all the Christian sects together but dividing the Muslim sects (and ignoring the Druze). Kermanshahi's point stands - the Christians in Lebanon are over-represented in Parliament compared to their numbers.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by mikado View Post
                  That's rather convenient, lumping all the Christian sects together but dividing the Muslim sects (and ignoring the Druze). Kermanshahi's point stands - the Christians in Lebanon are over-represented in Parliament compared to their numbers.
                  *Are you stating that it would have absolutely nothing to do with keeping Iranian influence ergo Hizbollah the terrorist organization out of influencing a neighboring government. IMO, it most certainly does. Iran decrying foul over one of their terrorist offshoots being denied influence in a neighboring countries government should be just fine with anyone that recognizes the danger she presents and certainly is no supporter of transparent and free elections. Not even close.

                  Kind of Ironic when the cheater gets cheated at their own game wouldnt you say?:))
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I think that Lebanon's political structure has more to do with Lebanese history and Lebanese sectarian politics than it has to do with keeping Iran at bay. Regardless of Iran's support for Hezb, it seems they do represent a large chunk of the Shi'ite population. And that's without getting into their alliance with a large chunk of the Christian population...

                    Hezb are clearly not any friends of democracy. Neither, to be fair, do many of the other Lebanese parties seem to be. However Kermanshahi's point still stands - the Lebanese Shi'ites are under-represented in Lebanese politics.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by mikado View Post
                      That's rather convenient, lumping all the Christian sects together but dividing the Muslim sects (and ignoring the Druze). Kermanshahi's point stands - the Christians in Lebanon are over-represented in Parliament compared to their numbers.
                      Kermanshah1 is the one who created the catagories. Now if you want to subdivide seats along sects fine Maronite 25% Shia and Sunni each 25% all other sects divide the rest.

                      This is the national pact

                      President- always Maronite, Prime Minister- always Sunni, President of the National Assembly- always Shia, deputy speaker of parliament always Greek Orthodox. Muslims agree to not unit with Syria and Christians agree to align with the Arab not western world.

                      Further to this was the agreement that ended the civil war that split parliament 50/50 between Christians and Muslims. Guess what it works thier economy was growing and human suffering was down. Unemployment has dipped by half since the end of the civil war.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        Thats kind of hard to do since they flew back over Damascus.
                        Well, they didn't fly over Damascus.

                        Yes it was, the most likely route to the site had to pass over the ADA sites defending Damscus, Syria however forgot to close the back door.
                        I showed you the map.
                        They went in and out via Turkey.

                        For what possible purpose? If its not a nuclear bomb uranium serves no puropose in explosvie devices.
                        Well they could have dropped some down to make it seem like a reactor.

                        I have any idea- vote on the candidate and remove rleigious litmus tests. The religious minorites in America do just fine without reserved seats.
                        If reserved seats would be removed, no christians or jews would ever make it to parliament.

                        Christians are about 40% of the population, Sunni and Shia are both about 25%. Thus Christianity remains the dominant faith if you count the 2 versions of Islam as seperate sects. More importantly none of the 3 major groups wants a new census in order to avoid sliding back into war.All threee major players agree to this power sharign arrangement.
                        Shi'a are 45%, Sunnis 20%, Christians 30% and Druze about 5%. Some even would put Muslims as a whole as high as 85%. Though these figures can somewhat vary, every reasonable estimate would put Shi'a as the largest group with than Christians and than Sunnis. Parliament division gives Christians 50% and Muslims just over 40%.

                        Do you really think Jimmy Carter would plot a coup, or that US shreddign technology could be so easily pieced back together? I bet you own a lot of bridges. The documents were forgeries designed to topple the populatist government and gain the Islamist power and it worked.
                        They were no forguries, they were real. And the generals of the Shah even said themselfes that they were approached by Americans which asked them to sieze power.

                        Iran funded it.
                        They didn't, because Hezbollah was not responsable.

                        Bombings, rocket attacks- if Iran funds it and its done I ran gets the blame.
                        So which bombings and rocket attacks in the west were done by Shi'as?

                        No like the one Iran was compelled to reveal recently.
                        Which one?

                        If Iran's program had been above board then yes, but it wasn't and so its rights were lost. Your arguing that a law breaker should be allowed to keep thier ill gotten gains. No legal system in the world would agree with you.

                        http://www.isis-online.org/publicati...violations.pdf
                        The practises they were doing at the time in secret were not illegal and they will not stop now either.

                        We don't want you building missiles becuase you use them to issue threats in bald faced attmepts to coerce your neighbors and the region.
                        Iran is under threat of US and their puppet regimes, these missiles are built to protect against that threat.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Well they could have dropped some down to make it seem like a reactor

                          *Wrong, Isotopes are as difinative as a fingerprint in nuclear programs. They no doubt will disclose exactly which reactor they came from. No reactor has the very same as the other. Its that definative.

                          They were no forguries, they were real. And the generals of the Shah even said themselfes that they were approached by Americans which asked them to sieze power.

                          Links and sources please?

                          Which one?

                          The one just disclosed by Iran before the West disclosed it to the UN. We among other countries intelligence agencies have know for awhile. Tough to hide from satellites and eyes on the ground no matter how much denial is offered.

                          The practises they were doing at the time in secret were not illegal and they will not stop now either.

                          Not according to the NPT signed by Iran, They broke the law and got caught.

                          And it makes no difference if they stop. They will get stopped one way or another, the writing is on the wall.

                          Iran is under threat of US and their puppet regimes, these missiles are built to protect against that threat.

                          And exactly which puppet regimes are you speaking of ?

                          Last time I checked Iraq and Israel held open elections.

                          And your missles wont protect Iran if it comes to that. You and your supplier aka NK are both far behind the technology that many other countries presently have.

                          Now, for your posts, lets see some clear neutral sources to support your claims made above.
                          Last edited by Dreadnought; 04 Nov 09,, 18:26.
                          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Kermanshahi View Post
                            Well, they didn't fly over Damascus.
                            Yes they did.

                            I showed you the map.
                            They went in and out via Turkey.
                            They came in via turkey, out over Syria.

                            Well they could have dropped some down to make it seem like a reactor.
                            possibly, but only if they have access to the same uranium that North Korea does. radioactive material can by fingerprinted to the mine it came from.

                            If reserved seats would be removed, no christians or jews would ever make it to parliament.
                            You don't think actual talent could propell them to power? Religion before ability eh?

                            Shi'a are 45%, Sunnis 20%, Christians 30% and Druze about 5%. Some even would put Muslims as a whole as high as 85%. Though these figures can somewhat vary, every reasonable estimate would put Shi'a as the largest group with than Christians and than Sunnis. Parliament division gives Christians 50% and Muslims just over 40%.
                            Your figures rely on counting Palestinian refugess who are not citizens. Also the agreement that ended the civil war splits parliament 50/50 instead of the old 6:5 ratio.

                            They were no forguries, they were real.
                            here are at least some of the documents. Of particular importanace

                            A. no signs of shredding implying they are reconstructions
                            B. if reocnstructions- how did they match the signatures?
                            C. if the signatutes are added for effect (ie forgeries) why not the rest of them
                            D Just how many different forms and type writers (fonts) could one office (embassy telegraph/teleprinter) have?


                            Also note the timing- it was just what the Islamist needed, jsut when they needed it.

                            And the generals of the Shah even said themselfes that they were approached by Americans which asked them to sieze power.
                            Let me put a proverbial gun to your familes heads and you'll say what ever I want you to say. How many of them are still alive to recant?

                            They didn't, because Hezbollah was not responsable.
                            The majority of the world dissagrees.

                            So which bombings and rocket attacks in the west were done by Shi'as?
                            Islamic Jihad's attacks in Lebanon are the big ones, but smaller attacks exit as well. Denying that Shia have engaged in terrorist actions is not a good way to stick around here. Shia groups are generally not as active, as blood thirst as Sunni grous but they do eixst.

                            Which one?
                            Most recently, the seocnd enrichment plant. But Iran has never followed IAEA protocols for establishing any of its sites or programs.

                            The practises they were doing at the time in secret were not illegal and they will not stop now either.
                            yes they were illegal. Let me see if I can explain this. Lets say I want to drive 200mph. There are two ways I can do this. 1- I can build the car, join a racing league and follow its rules and restrictions and drive on its courses. Or 2. I can build the car and just do it. By signing the NPT Iran agreed to 1, but has been doing 2

                            Iran is under threat of US and their puppet regimes, these missiles are built to protect against that threat.
                            If Iran was really under threat the modern Iranian state would not exist right now. Its Iran sending weaposn into Iraq, it was Iran sending mines into the PG not the US. Despite a steady lsit of provocatiosn since 1979 the US has been remarkably restraiend in how it deals with Iran.

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