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Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Chunder View Post
    Thanks for the little bit of insight - I have been reading somewhat but it is quite hard to get a good run down I suppose because of the lack of verse in Iranian Politics...

    The reason why I have quoted your last paragraph is this:

    Im not Stateside - Im Australian. Its important to realise that from our perspective we have a rather laconic attitude when it comes to ME affairs. Generally speaking we don't go in depth if something doesn't really affect us, or particularly annoys us - unless we are from that part of the world...

    In other words we arn't particularly afraid to give it to allies as we are to hype up against someone we don't like (politically of course it's a different story).

    We recognise (I use that terminology quite laxly) the animosity and the at times childish relationship (fiercely defended by both parties) but to spare us from having to commit troops because of our political allegiance should that path unfold - we'd hate and feel somewhat resentful if the olive branch was refused and a chance to attend to future prosperity. Certainly from my perspective Iran must be seen or heard in the news as wanting to broaden ties with the west.

    Likeability is not a currency the Current regime has. People like me are only likely to defend due process, but not a slap on the face. makes me less likely to protest political innuendo based on newspaper articles instead of due process - and of course the errors of following the innuendo path unquestioningly
    Well, the regime is not very populair in the West (though there are Westerners, specially from the left, which sympathise with Iranian cause) but in the Muslim world I have experienced first hand and also heared from others who went to Muslim countries, how immensely populair Iran and Iranian policies are.

    In short the Olive branch shouldn't be cut away, but the fruit doesn't stay on the branch forever whilst the politics of retribution play on - you don't shun the fruit because you can't eat it as the olive you know straight off the tree, it tastes bitter.
    Well I haven't seen much positive moves from the Obama regime so far when it comes to Middle East policy. As far as I've seen they haven't been extending an olive branch at all.

    Too bitter perhaps for Iran to see what good could arise from it? Then I'd say the Republicans and Israeli Right are baying for blood and unfortunately, politically we'll be dragged into it too.
    There was a suspension of nuclear program under Khatami, for 4 months. Not the first time the Americans double-crossed Iran. European negotiators had offered Iran that America would sell parts for civil airliners to Iran (Iran uses a lot of American civil airliners from the 70s and the sanctions make that Iran can only get the needed parts from the black market which is not in needed quantities and makes planes more unsafe and endangers the life of our citizens), the nuclear program was halted but Americans went back on the deal refusing to supply and demanding more policy changes from Iran, things which had nothing to do with the nuclear program. Khatami kept the nuclear program suspended for 4 months and couldn't get any progress because of America's unwillingness to cooperate, then Ahmadinejad was elected he immedietly re-started it.

    Originally posted by pChan View Post
    You don't speak for the regime yet... you mean that Iran will do what it continues to do. Fund terrorists like hezbollah. Pursue nukes.
    Iran will not stop supporting Hezbollah, there are some forces in the Middle East which America supports and some which Iran supporst. Finally America's regeonal dominance is being challenged, now America wants Iran to cut support for all it's allies while they can still support theirs. That's not gonna happen.

    And the world should just watch. That is some offer. You do realize that those sanctions affect your people and a broadening of sanctions will affect them more.
    The sanctions have had some effect but have never been very drastic. I don't think it's a good idea for Iran to get dependent on it's enemies, self-sufficiency is the road to independence.

    Ultimately whats the purpose of nation-state to project "power" or to serve its people? I am all for power projection as long as it does not affect its people. The course of action you suggest (& probably espouse) means more misery for the Iranian people.
    No one wants misery for the Iranian people, but some things we can just not back down on.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Kermanshahi View Post

      There was a suspension of nuclear program under Khatami, for 4 months. Not the first time the Americans double-crossed Iran. European negotiators had offered Iran that America would sell parts for civil airliners to Iran (Iran uses a lot of American civil airliners from the 70s and the sanctions make that Iran can only get the needed parts from the black market which is not in needed quantities and makes planes more unsafe and endangers the life of our citizens), the nuclear program was halted but Americans went back on the deal refusing to supply and demanding more policy changes from Iran, things which had nothing to do with the nuclear program. Khatami kept the nuclear program suspended for 4 months and couldn't get any progress because of America's unwillingness to cooperate, then Ahmadinejad was elected he immedietly re-started it.
      Well that is not a helpful attitude at all... Im not too sure that holding sourgrapes for whatever reason is productive towards improving ties. Iran really has to realise that it needs to play the Diplomacy game. It might not like what has allegedly happened but if Iran is not really ready to stop dicking around and start to be seen as engaging nobody is going to take Iran as being serious in it's commitments - and will continue to be treated as if it is in willful violation of the NPT - and that holds only one path for it.
      Ego Numquam

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Chunder View Post
        Well that is not a helpful attitude at all... Im not too sure that holding sourgrapes for whatever reason is productive towards improving ties. Iran really has to realise that it needs to play the Diplomacy game. It might not like what has allegedly happened but if Iran is not really ready to stop dicking around and start to be seen as engaging nobody is going to take Iran as being serious in it's commitments - and will continue to be treated as if it is in willful violation of the NPT - and that holds only one path for it.

        Chunder,

        I think the problem is that the current government sees more value in being seen as an adversary of the West than in coming to terms. Khatami was cut from different cloth. You & I both know that the course A-jad is on is a dead end at best (and at worst he gets bombed), but he has very differnet goals than you or I would for our nation. Unfortunately he is gambling with the prosperity of his nation in an attempt to become either a regional power or the standard bearer for militant Islam (or both). Yet another example of nationalism trumping common sense. Two centuries on you'd have thought humanity would have learned a thing or two.
        sigpic

        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Chunder View Post
          Well that is not a helpful attitude at all... Im not too sure that holding sourgrapes for whatever reason is productive towards improving ties. Iran really has to realise that it needs to play the Diplomacy game. It might not like what has allegedly happened but if Iran is not really ready to stop dicking around and start to be seen as engaging nobody is going to take Iran as being serious in it's commitments - and will continue to be treated as if it is in willful violation of the NPT - and that holds only one path for it.
          There hasn't been one time when Iran made a deal with the US when they didn't double cross us. This is not a very good record...

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          • #35
            Ahmedinejad Jewish?


            ahahaha that would be one hell of a irony :D
            Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Kermanshahi View Post
              There hasn't been one time when Iran made a deal with the US when they didn't double cross us. This is not a very good record...
              My apologies if my point is lost - im not particularly great at them I acknowledge. What I am trying to say is that US / Iranian relations aside - the rest of the interested parties don't really care what animosity exists... they would rather see progress... To hell with the animosity. Sound to simple? perhaps? but people want to see that opportunities were taken and not denied.
              Last edited by Chunder; 25 Oct 09,, 14:29. Reason: Grammar & clarification.
              Ego Numquam

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Kermanshahi View Post
                Iran doesn't discriminate against "Israeli Jews" Iran just doesn't recognise Israel's right of existance, like many countries.
                Pretty stupid considering the Jews where there first. Well not first but the first of the big three religions still around.
                Originally posted by GVChamp
                College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

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                • #38
                  Hmm lets see,

                  I dont want to recognize a Jewish state but yet I "supposedly" recognize those Jewish people. Hmmm, well if all of them live in the same place, one might think they all might move if Ahmedinejad wont recognize them.

                  Maybe, just maybe he should be more concerned about the Iranian people instead of the Jewish people in Gaza. After all it is the Iranians that had him forced upon them in this sham election and it is them who he has failed in all measures of policy that his position is responsible for.:P

                  In other words grown up and do atleast something for the Iranian people you helped rob of fair and transparent elections.
                  Last edited by Dreadnought; 27 Oct 09,, 14:38.
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Chunder View Post
                    My apologies if my point is lost - im not particularly great at them I acknowledge. What I am trying to say is that US / Iranian relations aside - the rest of the interested parties don't really care what animosity exists... they would rather see progress... To hell with the animosity. Sound to simple? perhaps? but people want to see that opportunities were taken and not denied.
                    But "the rest of the interested parties" are irrelevant, this is an issue between Iran and America.

                    Originally posted by Expat Canuck View Post
                    Pretty stupid considering the Jews where there first. Well not first but the first of the big three religions still around.
                    If Israel does or does not have the right to exist is beside the point here, the point is that Ahmadinejad and Iranian politicians are not anti-Jewish.

                    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                    Hmm lets see,

                    I dont want to recognize a Jewish state but yet I "supposedly" recognize those Jewish people. Hmmm, well if all of them live in the same place, one might think they all might move if Ahmedinejad wont recognize them.
                    Iran does not recognise the existance of the state Israel, but they have never denied the existance of "Jews". And per Iranian constitution, Judaism is recognised as one of the country's 4 religions and the Hebrew language also has recognition by law and can be used in education.

                    Maybe, just maybe he should be more concerned about the Iranian people instead of the Jewish people in Gaza. After all it is the Iranians that had him forced upon them in this sham election and it is them who he has failed in all measures of policy that his position is responsible for.:P

                    In other words grown up and do atleast something for the Iranian people you helped rob of fair and transparent elections.
                    Ahmadinejad is doing whatever he can for Iran, I do not blame him for foreign powers trying to hinder Iran's development.

                    BTW, Jews in Gaza ??

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                    • #40
                      If Israel does or does not have the right to exist is beside the point here, the point is that Ahmadinejad and Iranian politicians are not anti-Jewish.


                      *Nah they just deny the holocaust ever happened and support terror groups in Gaza. Nah, whats anti jewish and racist about that?

                      Iran does not recognise the existance of the state Israel, but they have never denied the existance of "Jews". And per Iranian constitution, Judaism is recognised as one of the country's 4 religions and the Hebrew language also has recognition by law and can be used in education.

                      *Well maybe all of the Jewish in Israel should split up and all go different directions and live in several different countries because some racist asshole says so.
                      Last edited by Dreadnought; 29 Oct 09,, 14:46.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Ahmadinejad is doing whatever he can for Iran, I do not blame him for foreign powers trying to hinder Iran's development.

                        Maybe you wont, but many will want his head if those nuke plants get flattened, It wont really matter then will it?:))

                        *More like trying to hinder putting a WMD in the hands of an adolescent ignorrant asshole thats religiously twisted and supports terror groups. Yep I can definately live with hindering that and I could live with it if Israel does it too.:))
                        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          *Nah they just deny the holocaust ever happened and support terror groups in Gaza. Nah, whats anti jewish and racist about that?
                          That's not the Iranian law, that's just Ahmadinejad saying that and he later said he doesn't leave out the option that it did happen or that it didn't happen, he just wants research to be done to see if it did or didn't happen. Because such things are banned in the west, were holocaust denial as a crime you can be put in jail for. The thing was mostly just to show hypocracy in the West's "freedom of speach"

                          *Well maybe all of the Jewish in Israel should split up and all go different directions and live in several different countries because some racist asshole says so.
                          Ahmadinejad didn't say they had to leave either, he only said the Palestinians who were victims to the 1947-1949 ethnic cleansing campaign should have the right of return.

                          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          Maybe you wont, but many will want his head if those nuke plants get flattened, It wont really matter then will it?:))
                          And considering that won't happen, it's not a problem.

                          *More like trying to hinder putting a WMD in the hands of an adolescent ignorrant asshole thats religiously twisted and supports terror groups. Yep I can definately live with hindering that and I could live with it if Israel does it too.:))
                          One man's terrorist is the other's freedom fighter.

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                          • #43
                            THat's not the Iranian law, that's just Ahmadinejad saying that and he later said he doesn't leave out the option that it did happen or that it didn't happen, he just wants research to be done to see if it did or didn't happen. Because such things are banned in the west, were holocaust denial as a crime you can be put in jail for. The thing was mostly just to show hypocracy in the West's "freedom of speach"

                            *Who ever stated it was Iranian Law? It certainly wasn't I.

                            Freedom of Speech? A world leader calling for another nations destruction? Outside of supplying arms,money and training to the terror groups that attack them? Thats called being a terrorist asshole that deserves to get his own medicine in full.

                            Are you for ****ing real? Stop drinking the cool aid friend, obviously A-Jad pissed in it and destroyed your human thought perception.


                            Ahmadinejad didn't say they had to leave either, he only said the Palestinians who were victims to the 1947-1949 ethnic cleansing campaign should have the right of return.

                            *Why should he say anything. Its not his country nor place to do so?


                            And considering that won't happen, it's not a problem.

                            *Really, If I were you my friend I would pray that he comes to his senses because as sure as Syria's reactor got blown to Mars so will Irans if it comes to that end. Make no mistake. The West might get blamed for it but that dont mean the West did it.;)

                            Who is going to miss it? The Russians? They get paid if its there or not.

                            The Israelis? Think they will care? I strongly doubt it.

                            Ahh, the Iranian people "might" miss the few billions of dollars spent on what is going to become rubble if this problem continues.

                            They might miss those billions of dollars better spent in their economy then missing A-jad when they come for his head for provoking attacks on the country instead of doing what he promissed the Iranian people at his first elections. Examples are unemployment, economy and ties to the international community. He is a failure even by his own peoples acclaim.



                            One man's terrorist is the other's freedom fighter.

                            *One un-educated and immoral man that is.;)
                            Last edited by Dreadnought; 29 Oct 09,, 21:23.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                              Freedom of Speech? A world leader calling for another nations destruction? Outside of supplying arms,money and training to the terror groups that attack them? Thats called being a terrorist asshole that deserves to get his own medicine in full.

                              Are you for ****ing real? Stop drinking the cool aid friend, obviously A-Jad pissed in it and destroyed your human thought perception.
                              IMO Israel has no right to exist, Ahmadinejad was in full right to say that.

                              *Why should he say anything. Its not his country nor place to do so?
                              Iran isn't your country either, neither is Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Somalia, North Korea, Cuba, ect. but still it's never prevented America from interfering with their business.

                              *Really, If I were you my friend I would pray that he comes to his senses because as sure as Syria's reactor got blown to Mars so will Irans if it comes to that end. Make no mistake. The West might get blamed for it but that dont mean the West did it.;)

                              Who is going to miss it? The Russians? They get paid if its there or not.

                              The Israelis? Think they will care? I strongly doubt it.

                              Ahh, the Iranian people "might" miss the few billions of dollars spent on what is going to become rubble if this problem continues.

                              They might miss those billions of dollars better spent in their economy then missing A-jad when they come for his head for provoking attacks on the country instead of doing what he promissed the Iranian people at his first elections. Examples are unemployment, economy and ties to the international community. He is a failure even by his own peoples acclaim.
                              That won't happen, what will happen is that Iran makes nukes and the West whines a bit and learns to accept it eventually.

                              *One un-educated and immoral man that is.;)
                              Depends. Almost all Shi'a Lebanese see Hezbollah as freedom fighters, most Shi'a in the world do, many Sunni Muslims and other Lebanese also do. But most Israelis and Americans think they are terrorists. Most Turks see the PKK as terrorist, most Kurds see them as freedom fighters. Most Palestinians see Hamas as freedom fighters, most Israelis see them as terrorists.
                              America viewed the PUK, the KDP, the SIIC, Dawa, as terrorists during the 80s and much of your people shared that view, but do they share that view today? Most Sunni Iraqis thought they are terrorists, many still do. But Shi'a and Kurds don't.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Kermanshahi View Post
                                That won't happen, what will happen is that Iran makes nukes and the West whines a bit and learns to accept it eventually.
                                The Iranians won't get nukes at least,not to deployable stage. There's not going to be a NK in the middle east. Whatever steps Iran takes in realising that goal is directly proportional to how much it gets hurt. Frankly thats a problem for the powers that be - time is your enemy. The U.S won't be loosing face after directly saying it won't be allowed to happen. The march to getting enough material to build one bomb has just taken a major step back, because what Obama's done is actually seek that that material be changed to plates for medical requirement behind the scenes and confirmed the intentions behind it with the Russian President. It was arranged through Irans representative at the IAEA.

                                So much for not seeing any diplomatic overtures :/ or any progress. The estimation to make that material again as byproduct is significant to diplomatic process. It may well be that Obama can keep the process off, and the U.S electorate might swing again, where Iran becomes a campaign topic... which does not look good for Iran. I'm not alltogether sure why your taking the uni-student approach Confrontation with the U.S is definitely not a good idea.
                                Last edited by Chunder; 31 Oct 09,, 15:41.
                                Ego Numquam

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