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Thread: From Moscow to Beijing: A journey from past to future

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    Senior Contributor Luke Gu's Avatar
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    From Moscow to Beijing: A journey from past to future

    From Moscow to Beijing: A journey from past to future - World AP - MiamiHerald.com
    BEIJING -- For passengers flying between Moscow and Beijing, the takeoff and landing are worlds apart.

    On one end is the Russian capital's shabby, dimly lit Sheremetyevo airport, where the cigarette smoke can be thick and the seating scanty. At the other is Beijing's new $3.8 billion Terminal 3, a place of soaring glass walls, trickling fountains and an undulating roof meant to resemble a dragon in flight.

    When crude oil prices were high - hitting a record $147 a barrel last summer - Russia was awash with petro-dollars and boasting of remaking the world order. With the price of crude now down by half, the economy is battered, and the Russian government acknowledges that it's at a "dead end."

    Chinese exports slowed from the period of red-hot expansion, but the country has proved to be a massive economic engine, perhaps able to lead the world out of recession.
    .....
    The problem comes from the top, said Valery Solovey, an analyst with the Gorbachev Foundation, a liberal research center in Moscow.

    "They did not - and do not - love their country and its people, and they have been focused on robbing them," Solovey said. "All post-Soviet governments viewed the country as a colony. ... In Russia, no one thinks about the future. Everyone wants to make quick money and would, without much hesitation, kill a hen which lays golden eggs."

    Of course, some analysts in Beijing and Moscow question the sustainability of China's upward climb. Can its growth continue when a $585 billion stimulus package ends next year? Will the country be able to shift from exports to domestic consumption?

    Still, in Beijing these days there's little chance that anyone in China's leadership would want to switch places with the Russians.
    As I know ,Russia's per capita GDP in 2008 was over 10,000 dollars and all Russians enjoy free medicare and education up to high school level.But it seems everyone likes to Belittle Russia。I think Russians should have a happy life because they are rich enough。But why in my mind thay still have a hard time,do I have suffered the impact of the Communist Party propaganda or my idea about Russia has become obsolete?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Gu View Post
    From Moscow to Beijing: A journey from past to future - World AP - MiamiHerald.com

    As I know ,Russia's per capita GDP in 2008 was over 10,000 dollars and all Russians enjoy free medicare and education up to high school level.But it seems everyone likes to Belittle Russia。I think Russians should have a happy life because they are rich enough。But why in my mind thay still have a hard time,do I have suffered the impact of the Communist Party propaganda or my idea about Russia has become obsolete?

    I think Russia's always been economically irrelevant.. I read somewhere that it had the same size economy as Belgium! Russia will always be a world player because of its massive military (and eagerness to use it).

    They've done well out of oil and gas prices which helps explain Putin's massive popularity, but it was never going to last.

    Chinas growing economic clout cant be denied, but thankfully doesn't seem to have much interest in military adventures other than the occasional sabre rattling at Taiwan.

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    I think Russia's always been economically irrelevant.. I read somewhere that it had the same size economy as Belgium! Russia will always be a world player because of its massive military (and eagerness to use it).
    No matter what's size her economic is,the fact is Russia is rich。And you have to admit that they are military genius。
    They've done well out of oil and gas prices which helps explain Putin's massive popularity, but it was never going to last.
    Though their economic rely on oil ,but the key is her have oil and the oil price will be high。So I think they will be richer in the future because of oil price。

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Gu View Post
    No matter what's size her economic is,the fact is Russia is rich。And you have to admit that they are military genius。

    Though their economic rely on oil ,but the key is her have oil and the oil price will be high。So I think they will be richer in the future because of oil price。
    I think 'Military Genius' might be overstating it a little...

    There seem to be a lot of military experts on this site that might be able to comment better on this.. but I always thought Russian military history consisted of brute force rather than clever strategizing.. maybe im wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    I think 'Military Genius' might be overstating it a little...

    There seem to be a lot of military experts on this site that might be able to comment better on this.. but I always thought Russian military history consisted of brute force rather than clever strategizing.. maybe im wrong
    To be fair, it's always worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    I think 'Military Genius' might be overstating it a little...

    There seem to be a lot of military experts on this site that might be able to comment better on this.. but I always thought Russian military history consisted of brute force rather than clever strategizing.. maybe im wrong
    The father of modern warfare was Russian, Mikhail Tukhachevskii, Georgy Zhukov orchestrated the German defeat during WWII, and the Soviet 58th Army did one hell of an engineering work to invade Afghanistan during winter in 1979.

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    To be fair, it's always worked.
    Yes,No matter how bad Russia economic is,the fact is she still is A large black bear In international politics。

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The father of modern warfare was Russian, Mikhail Tukhachevskii, Georgy Zhukov orchestrated the German defeat during WWII, and the Soviet 58th Army did one hell of an engineering work to invade Afghanistan during winter in 1979.
    I thought they just overwhelmed the Germans with sheer numbers?


    And they lost in Afghanistan!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    I thought they just overwhelmed the Germans with sheer numbers?
    They had sheer numbers during the beginning of war at Operation BARBAROSA. The Soviets lost entire armies at that time. Something must be different for the Russians to win later on and it was not just numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    And they lost in Afghanistan!
    Does not change the fact that their invasion was one hell of a military feat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    They had sheer numbers during the beginning of war at Operation BARBAROSA. The Soviets lost entire armies at that time. Something must be different for the Russians to win later on and it was not just numbers.
    Are you sure it wasn't just attrition?

    Does not change the fact that their invasion was one hell of a military feat.
    What was so good about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Are you sure it wasn't just attrition?
    Zhukov's Operation URANUS was a stroke of genius. He trapped Paulus in Stalingrad while cutting off 6th Army and laying waste to Army Group B.

    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    What was so good about it?
    They built roads in the middle of winter in that mountainous terrain to support their invasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Zhukov's Operation URANUS was a stroke of genius. He trapped Paulus in Stalingrad while cutting off 6th Army and laying waste to Army Group B.

    They built roads in the middle of winter in that mountainous terrain to support their invasion.
    Ill take your word for it on Stalingrad, but building the roads in the winter - wasnt that just a case of forcing their troops to build, and when they froze to death just replacing them with more troops?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Ill take your word for it on Stalingrad, but building the roads in the winter - wasnt that just a case of forcing their troops to build, and when they froze to death just replacing them with more troops?
    In 1979? I think you've missed that kind of practice by 35 years. The Soviets stopped using Penal Battalions at the end of WWII.

    Soviet Engineers are the best on earth bar none, I hate to say that since I take pride in my own regiment, but their abilities to build roads and bridges and the resulting Lines of Communications are unsurpassed anywhere.

    German battalions were often shocked to find whole Soviet divisions behind them just because the Soviets built a road around the road the Germans were blocking.

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    To everyone on this thread: What is the point of this discussion?

    We seem to be moving from a comparison of Russian & Chinese infrastructure to some generalized banter about the Russian military to Stalingrad & Afghanistan...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister unknown View Post
    To everyone on this thread: What is the point of this discussion?

    We seem to be moving from a comparison of Russian & Chinese infrastructure to some generalized banter about the Russian military to Stalingrad & Afghanistan...
    You can bring it back the point if you want。 Frankly speaking,all guys like to talk about the topic they’re interested and Familiar。

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