The Kashmir Problem

[antimony]

Reply to Kisakhani

Your posts, Sir, are getting more and more incoherent.

You want to debate about Kashmir, that's fine, I understand that as a Pakistani your POV would be different from me and most other Indians.

But how in the world are you qualified to talk about the Dravidian ethnic group, Sikhs living in Canada and Sikkim? Do your books from English Authors and your library notes from 1991 advise you on that?

How many "ethnic dravidians" do you know or have worked with? How many Indian Sikhs do you know, for that matter? And Sikkim, what about Sikkim?

And we really don't need your advice about how we need to use our energies. If push comes to a shove we can continue handling Kashmir indefinitely; where as your economy will falter if not supported financially by your friends.

And by the way, how in the world does Mao and Confucius come into all of this?

[calass]

I know the history of the sub-continent from 8000BC as student of Archeology and History
and incidently the books I studied were written by English authors. Books written later by
Indian and Pakistani writers each tries to knock the other out. I had the opportunity to
study the issue at UN library in New York in 1991 and those notes were from neutral party.My advice is accept the Chenab formula on Kashmir and utilize your energies towards betterment of both nations.

Why should India accept the Chenab formula when today India has it all?

Pakistan cannot keep up with India.This is not and has never been a bargain between equals.Pakistanis need to realize that.

[cirrrocco]

..... In South the Dravidian ethnic group will again rise, the Sikhs living in Canada and other countries who had fled still talk
of Khalistan, And not to forget Sikkim?

I am from the deep south. The only thing that rises is ..you know what.

anyway i enjoyed reading your fairy tale. I need moar.

[Tronic]

Kashmir is not the only religious-ethnic problem India is facing? They have in the East the Naga- Mizo problem. In South the Dravidian ethnic group will again rise, the Sikhs living in Canada and other countries who had fled still talk
of Khalistan, And not to forget Sikkim?

We've got a member from Eastern India here, Dravidian Indian members on this board, and Sikh members aswell (myself being one). So, the Pak government propaganda may already have cut India into several pieces, but I invite you to spend a little time on WAB, and you'll be in for a rude surprise. Good luck finding seperatists within us. Also don't be too enthusiastic about a Sikh Khalistani movement, the first target would be to reclaim Lahore as the capitol. :P

[Parihaka]

the first target would be to reclaim Lahore as the capitol. :P

Heh:))

[YoungIndia]

Sir，though all the religion nation don't show a good side to the world，I will not criticize them。

its not as simple as you put it. these "religion nation" citizens typically are clinging to outdated,destructive and medieval ideas of fighting religious wars and state promoting religion.

do you understand concepts like dar ul islam and dar ul harb? the division of
world into muslims and non muslims. why should we encourage a racist mentality?

why should guy of one community be privileged? why another guy be discriminated because of birth?


you cannot justify discrimination and bigotry.

That‘s what their people choose and we can't make sure if there's one day they can overtake others。

no chance. that civilisation is intellectually bankrupt clinging to the most rotten ideas available.


these "people" are highly insensitive ,intrusive and bothersome to others. example india's partition ,where thousands lost their homes and died for "an islamic state".

they hate multicultural secular democracies.


It's "us" against "them". that's what it comes to.

[S2]

kisakhani & flintlock Reply

Gents,

Neither have posted in the NEW MEMBERS intro board at the top of the page. Please do so and tell us a bit about yourselves. It would be helpful.

[Deltacamelately]

I second that.
And Kiskhani Bhaisahab, do comeback after that so that we can talk a little about the prospect of having a seperate Khalistan and how you could actually help in that.

[kisakhani]

I am a retired Sales& Marketing person from management group from 1964 to 1990 I worked in the Oil& Gas industry in Pakistan.Moved to Texas end of 1990 and joined Tandy
Corporation's RadioShack in management till 1998.Asked for transfer to Toronto, Canada stayed with the company till 2002. Completed diplomas in Interior Design and Decor.
Mutual funds and Mortgages. Ontario License certification in Security& Investigation. Since 2004 been working as a consultant. I belong to Pakhtunkhwa province usually known as NWFP. I am proud to be a Pakhtun.

[kisakhani]

Khalistan

Gunner sahib,
If members from your country stop their rhetorics of dividing Pakistan on ethnic basis and control spitting venom.Nobody would want to open old chapters.But I have met some old timers from Amritsar and Jullander in Nova Scotia and Ontario who still think of Khalistan.Remember if we are divided there will be a chain reaction.India sits on multiple ethnic and religious groups
that could catch fire.

[Luke Gu]

kisakhani，you should introduce yourself in “member introduction”so that other members can know more about you，not here。As for India-Pakistan Partition，I think it's meaningless to talk about it now。

no chance. that civilisation is intellectually bankrupt clinging to the most rotten ideas available.
these "people" are highly insensitive ,intrusive and bothersome to others. example india's partition ,where thousands lost their homes and died for "an islamic state".

Sir，I think we're talking about Religious country，not civilisation。Every civilisation has its wonderful place，especially these religion civilisation which has exsited for a long time。And I will criticize one nation's people not a civilisation。And don't forget that ：India has the second largest population of Muslim。

[Tronic]

Gunner sahib,
If members from your country stop their rhetorics of dividing Pakistan on ethnic basis and control spitting venom.Nobody would want to open old chapters.But I have met some old timers from Amritsar and Jullander in Nova Scotia and Ontario who still think of Khalistan.Remember if we are divided there will be a chain reaction.India sits on multiple ethnic and religious groups
that could catch fire.

There is no one dividing Pakistanis other than Pakistanis. Bangladesh was also a result of Pakistan's own flaws, not due to India.

Secondly, Deltacamelately is another Sikh, one who has served in the Indian armed forces at that. So really, you're telling us that you'll incite us to carve up our own country?

I don't disagree on your experience with Sikhs in Canada; the US/UK/Canada are hotbeds of Khalistani activity, but then there is a reason they are only in US/UK/Canada, the ground realities in India have changed, today we have got a Sikh PM running the country, those chaps, most of whom aren't even allowed to enter India, are still living in the '80s mindset.

[667medic]

We've got a member from Eastern India here, Dravidian Indian members on this board, and Sikh members aswell (myself being one). So, the Pak government propaganda may already have cut India into several pieces, but I invite you to spend a little time on WAB, and you'll be in for a rude surprise. Good luck finding seperatists within us. Also don't be too enthusiastic about a Sikh Khalistani movement, the first target would be to reclaim Lahore as the capitol. :P

Can't blame him, he is smoking some good afghan shyt....

[n21]

Gunner sahib,
If members from your country stop their rhetorics of dividing Pakistan on ethnic basis and control spitting venom.Nobody would want to open old chapters.But I have met some old timers from Amritsar and Jullander in Nova Scotia and Ontario who still think of Khalistan.Remember if we are divided there will be a chain reaction.India sits on multiple ethnic and religious groups
that could catch fire.

The biggest problem with the so called "Khalistan" is that a bunch is trying to break away from a nation,which will be defended foremost by the same religious group they represent!

Sikhs has provided more than their share of blood for the defence of India.
Hence the "Khalistanis" can only dream about it outside India!

That is the major difference b/w India & Pakistan. Pakistan uses religion as a binding force for the various ethnic groups, while India uses nationalism/nationhood over religion.

[YoungIndia]

Sir，I think we're talking about Religious country，not civilisation。Every civilisation has its wonderful place，especially these religion civilisation which has exsited for a long time。

i am using the word "civilization" because the countries comprising it follow a similar politcal model-

1. essentially "religion = state". the state is expected to promote the "interests of islam" (depending on sunni or shia majoirty)

2. laws of those countries are either influenced or based on sharia

3. muslims have higher privileges/advantage than other citizens.

4. sharia is considered to perfect than man made laws.(note-because verses in the quran are considered divine and immutable, sharia is usually rigid and cannot evolve beyond a certain point.)

the majority of people as well as intellectuals have ideas/views mostly within this framework despite cultural or nationalist differences.

And I will criticize one nation's people not a civilisation。

but are they evolving?

if you are going to cling to old outdated ideas of state promoting religion(not to mention the ill effects like binladen,fundamentalism and all that), when are you going to change?

the western democarcies have stopped this religion business three hundred years ago.

for the islamic world ,we are still counting.

i am criticising people who cling to this ideas/model.

because the strategic implications of these ideas are enormous and highly bothersome to others.

they consitute a clear threat to multicultural societies. because you are thinking only in terms of sunni muslims or shia.not rest of society.it is a racist,narrow minded mentality and insensitive to nonmuslim neighbours.

hence we respond accordingly.

there are some citizens in india,the so called hindu nationalists represented by the politcal party BJP who have a variant of this model.i don't like them either

And don't forget that ：India has the second largest population of Muslim。

we did have problems originally with integrating them into a secular demoracy model.hence the partition.

in india,muslims are allowed their personal laws while public laws have to be secular.hence a minor compromise.