Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Health Care Bill H.R. 3200 or "Obamacare"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Health Care Bill H.R. 3200 or "Obamacare"

    Good day all,
    Below is a link that will allow you to view the text version of H.R. 3200 (Health Care Reform Act or H.R. 3200) as it is introduced to the House of Representitives. I strongly recommend you read this bill as there are many questions, concerns that many people have before approving of this bill.

    The reason I chose to link to Congress is to avoid any slated opinions of the bill from either side of the isle. (I asked for imput);)

    People, this is a very important choice so dont just write it off, read carefully and take it all in before deciding. Please do be patient as since it is over 1,000 pages it may take some time to load. Enjoy and lets have some good debates.

    P.S. To avoid being reported to the Administration for "fishtales" this message will self destruct in 10 seconds. 9,8,7,:P

    Text of H.R.3200 as Introduced in House: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Aug 09,, 17:46.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  • #2
    I simply don't understand why some people see the government as the solution to what essentially is a market problem. What program does the government run well?

    We laugh at our own public education system. The solution: more government.

    Amtrak is hemorrhaging money. The solution: more government.

    Fannie/Freddie? More government.

    FEMA? Created by the 2nd worst president in the 20th century in the late 1970s. What a shining example of success that is. How do we fix it? More government.

    Let's turn to the existing government run health care systems: VA and Medicare. We can't take care of our soldiers and Medicare is nearly bankrupt. The solution: let's expand these services to cover EVERYONE.

    I admit, there are some things only the government can do well. National defense, as outlined in the Constitution. We can argue the Interstate under national defense or even interstate commerce section of the Constitution. But at least these 2 systems are not specifically defined benefits for a certain individual. National defense benefits all Americans and the Interstate doesn't outline individual benefits.

    Health care is an individual matter. There are millions of variations in our needs. The government cannot possibly foresee every single contingency or possible fraud to take actions against.

    Why do we trust our lives to the same entity that runs our education system and FEMA? It simply does not compute.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

    Comment


    • #3
      gunnut,

      i asked dreadnought to create the thread to discuss specific instances of problematic or (as may be) laudatory areas.

      for generalities, recommend you continue using the old thread,

      http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/ame...healthcar.html

      thanks.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

      Comment


      • #4
        can I ask a question? right at the beginning it says:

        To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes.
        the phrase "and for other purposes". Does that mean that they want to reduce growth in spending for other purposes besides healthcare, or that the bill simply contains a few complete different things, nothing to do with health care?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by astralis View Post
          gunnut,

          i asked dreadnought to create the thread to discuss specific instances of problematic or (as may be) laudatory areas.

          for generalities, recommend you continue using the old thread,

          http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/ame...healthcar.html

          thanks.
          OK, I used this thread because the other thread is more about discussing the White House fishy email thing. I just thought this thread might be more on topic.
          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

          Comment


          • #6
            hmm, you have a good pt too. okay, how about this: if specifically talking about the bill and its effects, please reference it.
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

            Comment


            • #7
              Section pertaining to retaining current insurance

              First of all, the government plans to stipulate some criteria for what they call a "Qualified Health Benefits" plan which must meet some required criteria

              Excerpt from SEC. 101. REQUIREMENTS REFORMING HEALTH INSURANCE MARKETPLACE
              (a) Purpose- The purpose of this title is to establish standards to ensure that new health insurance coverage and employment-based health plans that are offered meet standards guaranteeing access to affordable coverage, essential benefits, and other consumer protections.

              (b) Requirements for Qualified Health Benefits Plans- On or after the first day of Y1, a health benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan under this division unless the plan meets the applicable requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan and plan year involved:

              (1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
              (2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
              (3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protection).
              Next, a definition of enrollment in Employer provided and individual plans

              Excerpt:
              (1) ENROLLMENT IN EMPLOYMENT-BASED HEALTH PLANS- An individual shall be treated as being ‘enrolled’ in an employment-based health plan if the individual is a participant or beneficiary (as such terms are defined in section 3(7) and 3(8), respectively, of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974) in such plan.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink

              (2) INDIVIDUAL AND GROUP HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE- The terms ‘individual health insurance coverage’ and ‘group health insurance coverage’ mean health insurance coverage offered in the individual market or large or small group market, respectively, as defined in section 2791 of the Public Health Service Act.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
              So, IIRC, if I am enrolled in either an employer provided or self funded plan (lets call them pre-existing plans) before Day 1, I am considered "insured"

              Now, can I keep those benefits?


              Excerpt:

              SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

              (a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

              (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT

              (A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

              (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

              (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

              (3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
              So, if I am insured (as defined above), I can keep my current insurance and include dependents, as long as the insurance provider does not change the plan in any way. However, new enrollment in such pre-existing plans will not be permitted.

              So what happens if the pre-existing plans do not meet the requirements of a "Qualified Health Benefits" plan?


              (b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans

              (1) GRACE PERIOD

              (A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.

              (2) TRANSITIONAL TREATMENT AS ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- During the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be treated as acceptable coverage under this division.
              So, an employer provided plan gets a Grace Period (greater than at least 5 years from the Start date, to change itself to a "Qualified Health Benefits" Plan. Meanwhile, it is treated as one having acceptable coverage.

              Translation, if you like your employer provided plan, you get to keep it for at least 5 years

              What happens to individually funded plans?


              (c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage

              15(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.

              2(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.
              New enrollments to individual plans would have to be into plans deemed as "Qualified Health Benefits" Plan. If someone needs healthcare beyond the coverage provided by such plans, they may choose to do so.

              I can see questions such as "what happens if I get laid off and lose employer provided insurance" and such, but so far it does not seem extremely radical, especially for employer provided plans.

              What form would a "Qualified Benefits Plan" take? That is certainly a valid question to discuss.
              Last edited by antimony; 13 Aug 09,, 20:22.
              "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                I simply don't understand why some people see the government as the solution to what essentially is a market problem. What program does the government run well?
                .
                Medicare, and the idea it's an individual soloution as long as you don't develop a chronic illness. Ask those people at townhalls if they want to get rid of Medicare which has a higher favoribility rating than private insurance. Is Obamacare this plan or the Senate plan? How about the folks lieing andf talking about death panels? Thy of course are referring to a republican amendment when the are demagouging the issue. I hear tort reform is the answer but Texas passed it to no effect so why should I believe it will have a national effect?
                Last edited by Roosveltrepub; 13 Aug 09,, 21:47.
                Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                ~Ronald Reagan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                  Medicare, and the idea it's an individual soloution as long as you don't develop a chronic illness. Ask those people at townhalls if they want to get rid of Medicare which has a higher favoribility rating than private insurance. Is Obamacare this plan or the Senate plan? How about the folks lieing andf talking about death panels? Thy of course are referring to a republican amendment when the are demagouging the issue. I hear tort reform is the answer but Texas passed it to no effect so why should I believe it will have a national effect?
                  Again, I ask, what government program is well-run.

                  Medicare? Public education? Amtrak? Fannie/Freddie? VA? FEMA? Just name me one besides the few specified in the Constitution.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    Again, I ask, what government program is well-run.

                    Medicare? Public education? Amtrak? Fannie/Freddie? VA? FEMA? Just name me one besides the few specified in the Constitution.
                    medicare is well run from the service side.
                    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                    ~Ronald Reagan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                      medicare is well run from the service side.
                      So was Webvan...

                      Webvan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                        Again, I ask, what government program is well-run.

                        Medicare? Public education? Amtrak? Fannie/Freddie? VA? FEMA? Just name me one besides the few specified in the Constitution.
                        GN,

                        It seems to me (based on my reading, see above) that the current insurance industries can keep on practicing, but the government will have a choice for those currently uninsured. Can that really be that bad?

                        Yes, you can argue and say that the government run plan will be inefficient. But then it would be providing a service that the current insurance industry does not provide in an inexpensive manner. That would probably cost more tax dollars than necessary, but will probably also pull up the national health up a bit.
                        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by antimony View Post
                          GN,

                          It seems to me (based on my reading, see above) that the current insurance industries can keep on practicing, but the government will have a choice for those currently uninsured. Can that really be that bad?
                          It's bad when I have to pay for it.

                          Originally posted by antimony View Post
                          Yes, you can argue and say that the government run plan will be inefficient. But then it would be providing a service that the current insurance industry does not provide in an inexpensive manner. That would probably cost more tax dollars than necessary, but will probably also pull up the national health up a bit.
                          We already have government run, inexpensive health care to cover those who can't afford it - Medicaid. In California, we have MediCal. These people are offered coverage. They don't even want to take the time to apply for it. They just want an ID card issued by the federal government and walk into a hospital to get care.

                          The entire point of this "health care reform" is to offer free care to illegal immigrants. That's all. Rich people who don't have insurance don't need it. They can buy their own. Poor people who can't afford insurance have various programs to turn to like Medicaid and MediCal. They just need to do a little leg work. Foreigners can go back to their own country for awesome government care that they always tell us about. Who's left?
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
                            can I ask a question? right at the beginning it says:



                            the phrase "and for other purposes". Does that mean that they want to reduce growth in spending for other purposes besides healthcare, or that the bill simply contains a few complete different things, nothing to do with health care?
                            Ha! I never noticed that. It could be a way to cover someone's ass when a "small" pork spending is snuck in with this massive bill.
                            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It's bad when I have to pay for it.

                              *Amen to that one. Hell, its bad enough I have to pay my own way. Can I right this off on my taxes at the end of the year?:)) More then likely no but now I have dependants thanks to great old uncle sam and the pass the buck creedo.

                              So much for trying to make responsible choices and keeping a job at all costs no matter the losses.
                              Last edited by Dreadnought; 14 Aug 09,, 13:18.
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X