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  • China Threatens U.S. Alliances

    While the Bush administration continues to push and celebrate significant successes for democracy in the Middle East, China is on an opposing mission in Asia, where it continues to block the spread of democracy.

    The most recent target of Chinese diplomatic pressure is Australia, America’s most reliable ally in the Pacific — or in the world, for that matter. Less than a week after China announced its new “Anti-Secession” law, by which Beijing claims the right to attack democratic Taiwan if it sees fit, a Chinese official demanded Australia amend its 50-year-old alliance with the United States.

    Australians fought beside Americans in every war of the 20th century — from World War I through World War II, Korea, Vietnam and both Gulf wars. The war in Vietnam was just as controversial in Australia as it was in the United States, but the Aussies never abandoned their friends in America.

    Australia has not flinched from our alliance in the 21st century. When the Indonesian military began its scorched-earth operations against East Timor in September 1999, Australia deployed a peacekeeping force there even as the much larger Indonesian army continued to conduct its punitive operations. Because of Australia’s immediate and strong response, the United States had to deploy only a handful of technical specialists to help out in East Timor.

    Canberra invoked the alliance when the United States was attacked on Sept. 11, and Australia has participated in every campaign of the war on terrorism, including Iraq and Afghanistan. The war has not been without cost to Australia: In October 2002, Al Qaeda-linked terrorists blew up a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia, killing 92 Australians. Other Australians, soldiers and civilians alike, have lost their lives fighting alongside Americans in Iraq, Afghanistan and other battlefields of the war on terrorism.

    Australia also shares with the United States a critical security interest in defending democracies in Asia. In August 2001, then-deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage visited Canberra and later commented that he could not imagine Australia not supporting the U.S. in any major conflict in Asia — even in Taiwan.

    Ever since, Beijing has sought to drive a wedge between Canberra and Washington. On the very day China passed its so-called “anti-secession” law, the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s top Pacific policy official, Mr. He Yafei, told an interviewer from The Australian, "If there were any move by Australia and the U.S. in terms of that alliance [ANZUS] that is detrimental to peace and stability in Asia, then it [Australia] has to be very careful," adding that this was “especially so” in the case of Taiwan.

    Beijing’s message was clear: Australia had better not help the United States to defend Taiwan — or else.

    Australia’s foreign ministry immediately released a statement that Australia had no intentions of amending any facet of the treaty with America and that the alliance remains strong. But there is more going on here than indirect threats from old men in China’s foreign ministry. China is one of Australia’s largest trading partners with about $20 billion dollars a year trade both ways, and Beijing has suggested a bilateral free-trade agreement was possible to further sweeten the pot.

    That China would challenge an American alliance as strong as our relationship with Australia sends a clear signal that the Chinese are ready to test the extent of their new and growing power in the region and, perhaps, the resolve of the United States and Australia. In the last four years, as China has emerged as the economic superpower of the Asia-Pacific region, it increasingly has sought opportunities to challenge American power in the region and replace the United States as the dominant diplomatic presence.

    The Chinese also have begun to effectively translate their trade and investment clout into political influence. China now gives military assistance to the Philippines, another long-time ally of the United States, and props up dangerous, despicable regimes in North Korea, Burma and elsewhere.

    It is right that the Bush administration take pride in its accomplishments toward democratization in the Middle East. But it needs to keep an eye on China, too. It has dropped the ball in the Far East in recent weeks. The Chinese have picked up that ball and begun to run with it.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151094,00.html

  • #2
    China is also warming up to India. Chinese influence in Asia is not going to be as easy as it appears.

    The thought that the US and Australia 'defend' democracies is, in my opinion, nothing more than a mere diplomatic euphemism, a phrase which does not reflect reality. The geopolitical landscape is bound to change because of the rise China and India.

    Canberra invited Hu Jingtao to address its parliament.

    P.S - Since we speak of US alliances in Asia, I dont think the US has an 'alliance' with India. The current US administration is myopic.
    Last edited by Karthik; 25 Mar 05,, 04:16.

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    • #3
      China and India have far too little in common, and too much to fight over, to ever be strong allies. Same with China and Russia and China and Japan as well. Too much history, and too much mistrust. China is quite encircled diplomatically, and it will most likely take a lot of time for them to escape that.

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      • #4
        If Kyrgistan because a US ally, then China will certainly be encircled, except for the Pakistani border for course.

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        • #5
          The US has not considered an alliance with India, so far as I know, since Nehru decided to remain neutral in teh cold war, which Pakistan proudly chomped at the bit.

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          • #6
            China is playing a very dangerous game with very dangerous opponents(lots of them).

            They should be VERY careful they don't bite off more than they can chew.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by M21Sniper
              China is playing a very dangerous game with very dangerous opponents(lots of them).

              They should be VERY careful they don't bite off more than they can chew.
              They are very hungry and I think are at least debating it. Bad, bad move if it happens.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Julie
                They are very hungry and I think are at least debating it. Bad, bad move if it happens.
                Bad move if they take Taiwan?

                Good move when US of A attacks Iraq/Panama/Hiati/grenada/nicaragua without a rhyme or a reason?

                Spaghetio logic.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by keshto patel
                  Bad move if they take Taiwan?

                  Good move when US of A attacks Iraq/Panama/Hiati/grenada/nicaragua without a rhyme or a reason?

                  Spaghetio logic.
                  Not at all. We were able to win in every one of those situations, and there was no danger of any of those conflicts escalating into a great power conflict, much less a great power conflict that the US would lose. China could not beat Taiwan much less take it, and they would run a great risk of drawing in a number of other powers capable of crushing them (US, Japan, India, Russia).

                  We have the strength, and are not directly imposing on any great power's interests... China fulfills neither of those criteria.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lwarmonger
                    Not at all. We were able to win in every one of those situations, and there was no danger of any of those conflicts escalating into a great power conflict, much less a great power conflict that the US would lose. China could not beat Taiwan much less take it, and they would run a great risk of drawing in a number of other powers capable of crushing them (US, Japan, India, Russia).

                    We have the strength, and are not directly imposing on any great power's interests... China fulfills neither of those criteria.
                    China is doing what *it* thinks is doing right.period

                    And mind you US would be a silent spectator there, just as congress pulled its forces from somalia where moghadishu warlords paradaed dead american bodies to the detriments of few senators.

                    Speaks volum of american bravery who rely on sophisticated gizmos missing in opponents arsenal, kinda killing those arrow holding red indians with rifles.
                    Last edited by keshto patel; 25 Mar 05,, 23:36.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lwarmonger
                      We have the strength, and are not directly imposing on any great power's interests... :

                      Last time it was Atlanta Journal Constitution which inked the threat by china who said they would not mind bringing mushrum clouds at los angles.

                      China is a defiant country who means what it says and state deptment knows it.

                      John sununu on crossfire said " dont we know that we can not antognise chinese because they are showing us middle finger" with meachal kinsly.

                      Here is what it is:


                      This statement came out in garbled form in The New York Times. It was made toward the end of a five-hour argument in October 1995, over what the probable effect would be of the military maneuvers the Central Military Commission had authorized in the Taiwan Straits. It was my position, which turned out to be correct, that if China carried through with its plans, it would get a good American military reaction. It was the position of the Chinese military officers, with whom I was speaking, that there would be no American military reaction.

                      At the end of the very heated argument, one of them said, "And finally, you do not have the strategic leverage that you had in the 1950's when you threatened nuclear strikes on us. You were able to do that because we could not hit back. But if you hit us now, we can hit back. So you will not make those threats. In the end you care more about Los Angeles than you do about Taipei."
                      Last edited by keshto patel; 25 Mar 05,, 23:47.

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                      • #12
                        If mushroom clouds appear in LA, China will cease to exist.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by keshto patel
                          Speaks volum of american bravery who rely on sophisticated gizmos missing in opponents arsenal, kinda killing those arrow holding red indians with rifles.
                          No, it only speaks about Democratic American Presidents who don't have the guts for a fight. The American soldiers in Somalia were begging to go back in and teach the Somalis a lesson they wouldn't forget anytime soon.

                          I guess you haven't been watching the news lately. Like when 10 Kentucky National Guardsmen (2 of them were women) whacked 27 insurgents who ambushed them in Iraq. Watch out for American girls with guns...
                          "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ZFBoxcar
                            If mushroom clouds appear in LA, China will cease to exist.


                            What is safer option?
                            To save taiwan or LA?

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                            • #15
                              "The Chinese also have begun to effectively translate their trade and investment clout into political influence. China now gives military assistance to the Philippines, another long-time ally of the United States, and props up dangerous, despicable regimes in North Korea, Burma and elsewhere."

                              God it took people that long to figure out.

                              They have supplied and are still supplying Thailand possibly our closest ally in SE Asia. Thailand did so because of the fall to Indochina to communism and needed some cheap weapons in bulk.

                              Becuase of the congress emposed sanctions on Indonesia China is trying to move in down there even though Indonesia has a island dispute with them (Natuna) and when ever they have internal problems they burn down the Chinese part of town . Presidents since Bush Sr. have tried to get the sanctions dropped. Clinton could not get them dropped. Even with Bush Jr. trying to get them dropped he is having problems doing so.

                              We had also cut back aid to the Philippines so China is trying to pick up there. The Philippines are more boxed in also because of the Spartly Islands dispute with China which we are not supporting them in. Take the aid joint develop the Spartly's or fight a naval battle not a big choice these days...

                              So with a lot more effort they could break out of south east Asian contament even if those nations don't join a China bloc.
                              To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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