Page 1 of 84 12345678910 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 1255

Thread: Littoral Combat Ships

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    24 Mar 07
    Posts
    17

    Littoral Combat Ships

    Two prototypes of LCS - Freedom and Independence classes - are now under production in the USA. Do they mean to continue with manufacturing both types in parallel or decision in favour of one of them will be taken some day?

  2. #2
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10 Jul 07
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    985
    Quote Originally Posted by AK Fan View Post
    Two prototypes of LCS - Freedom and Independence classes - are now under production in the USA. Do they mean to continue with manufacturing both types in parallel or decision in favour of one of them will be taken some day?
    It was always my understanding that 2 ships from each class were authorizaed for construction. After trials, one class of ship was to be chosen as the LCS platform, and ~50 of them were to be delivered. However, both designs were so overbudget and behind schedule, that the Navy chose to finish only one of each class, halting construction on both of the second production units.

    In my opinion, the LCS is a silly concept, and they should have been looking at a more proper Frigate replacement for the Perry-class right from the start. Such a class would have replaced and added to the capabilities of the Perry-class, and performed the littoral missions being placed on the LCS. Maybe they will realize this before they build 50 high-speed, no weapon corvettes which I see as useless.

    Does anyone know how the Navy is looking at the program and the ships now that they've had some time in the water?

  3. #3
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 06
    Location
    Patterson, CA
    Posts
    3,080
    I know the US Navy really like the Swedish Visby-class ships, but they aren't willing to go so far as to actually buy any from the Swedes (that would be un-American!), so they're basically trying to find a US manufacturer who will build Visby-type ships in the US.
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

  4. #4
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10 Jul 07
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    985
    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    I know the US Navy really like the Swedish Visby-class ships, but they aren't willing to go so far as to actually buy any from the Swedes (that would be un-American!), so they're basically trying to find a US manufacturer who will build Visby-type ships in the US.
    Stich, do you mean the USN is trying to replicate the Visby in it's LCS designs, or that they don't like the current LCS designs and are trying to come up with something similar to the Visby now?

    The Visby-class seems to accomplish the littoral patrol mission quite well, and that's the only thing the LCS designs strike me as doing well, the whole mission module thing never never sat well with me, and I struggle to see these ships being effective in other missions, besides what an onboard SH-60R can provide of course.

  5. #5
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Jan 06
    Location
    DPRK, Demokratik People's Republik of Kalifornia
    Posts
    23,782
    LCS is not really a stupid concept. The implementation is.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  6. #6
    Senior Contributor Rumrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Jul 09
    Location
    New York, NY - Da Heights
    Posts
    971
    The LCS Independence put to sea a few days ago on builders trials and the Freedom (LCS-1) is undergoing testing at present off Norfolk and the USEC before it makes the final trip over to San Diego.

    I for one am glad to see the USN investing back into brown and green water operations. Too many years spent trailing Soviet subs and surface craft in the open ocean have left the littoral waters aspect of the modern USN more or less uncovered. Sure the Cyclone Class can fill the role, but having been all over one during fleetweek here in NYC, they are little more than fast gunboats, with no ASW or advanced technologies and securing large Littoral waters is not their intended purpose.

    Plus, the Independence just looks bad-ass. Aside from the dinky little gun on the bow.
    Last edited by Rumrunner; 15 Jul 09, at 20:15. Reason: removed huge pic

  7. #7
    Senior Contributor Rumrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Jul 09
    Location
    New York, NY - Da Heights
    Posts
    971
    Hopefully this wont garner the dead kitten award, but here's some pics of the USS Freedom getting flight deck qualifications.

    Attachment 16371
    You know JJ, Him could do it....

  8. #8
    Global Moderator
    Devil's Advocate
    ArmchairGeneral's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 May 06
    Location
    Boston, MA.
    Posts
    4,668
    I wonder if there's any possibility of a stretched LCS? She's wider than a lot of much longer ships, so lateral stability shouldn't be too much of an issue. I suppose there might be problems with the weird hull designs they used, though. The gap between LCS and the Burkes is just so huge. It would be nice to have something a little bit in between.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

  9. #9
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Jan 06
    Location
    DPRK, Demokratik People's Republik of Kalifornia
    Posts
    23,782
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    I wonder if there's any possibility of a stretched LCS? She's wider than a lot of much longer ships, so lateral stability shouldn't be too much of an issue. I suppose there might be problems with the weird hull designs they used, though. The gap between LCS and the Burkes is just so huge. It would be nice to have something a little bit in between.
    I think that was the whole point. The navy found out fewer, bigger hulls with more capability is actually cheaper than more intermediate hulls with less capability.

    Of course I could be way wrong. But that was the impression I got.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  10. #10
    Senior Contributor Rumrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Jul 09
    Location
    New York, NY - Da Heights
    Posts
    971
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    I wonder if there's any possibility of a stretched LCS? She's wider than a lot of much longer ships, so lateral stability shouldn't be too much of an issue. I suppose there might be problems with the weird hull designs they used, though. The gap between LCS and the Burkes is just so huge. It would be nice to have something a little bit in between.
    I have a feeling thats why there are two active LCS designs going at the same time. Whichever proves to be a better LCS vessel goes into full time production while the other is either redesigned or put back on the rack for later use when the Perrys run out of steam. I would think that the USS Freedom's hull would be much easier to stretch out or redesign than the USS Independance's tri-hull catamaran though.

    If a redesigned longer version of either LCS comes along down the road I would hope the designers do better work than the Coast Guard did with their 110ft to 123ft Island Class Patrol Boat conversions
    You know JJ, Him could do it....

  11. #11
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Just passing her sea trials. A tri-hull. This is LCS 2 The USS Independence. Rumor holds she can see the better side of 60 knots

    LCS 2 begins sea trials after 3-day delay

    By Philip Ewing - Staff writer
    Posted : Friday Jul 3, 2009 9:34:28 EDT

    The Navy’s second littoral combat ship, Independence, put to sea for the first time Thursday for builder’s trials, three days later than scheduled after its shipyard crew dealt with early engineering problems.

    The aluminum trimaran was scheduled to spend four days at sea testing its engines and equipment, including a full-power run that will demonstrate whether the ship can get up to the same high speeds as its steel-and-aluminum counterpart, Freedom.

    Jim DeMartini, a spokesman for shipbuilder General Dynamics, would not give any information about what technical problems held up Independence’s builder’s trials, which were originally slated to begin Monday.

    He told Navy Times on Monday that technicians heard unwelcome noises in one of the ship’s main propulsion diesels just after it had pushed away from its Mobile, Ala., pier, so they returned to the dock “out of an abundance of caution.” But after the start of trials was delayed again the next day, he said GD would no longer provide “interim updates” about the condition of the ship. Other than confirming Independence sailed Thursday, he gave no details about what had been repaired.

    “We’re just not going to make any statements until trials are over,” DeMartini said. The ship was underway on schedule on Thursday afternoon.

    The Navy has never fielded a warship like Independence, and so engineers are eager to observe how the ship performs at sea. Although it is designed to accept the same interchangeable sub, mine and surface target-hunting equipment as Freedom, LCS 2’s singular shape and outrigger hulls are supposed to help it ride smoothly in rough seas. Unlike Freedom, which planes over the waves like a Jet Ski, Independence is built with a bulbous bow to slice through the surface.

    Another dynamic technicians will be watching is how Independence uses its fuel. Both LCS configurations have combined diesel and gas turbine power plants, designed to run four engines together to achieve their high sprint speeds. But the tradeoff for Freedom in early tests has been that it guzzles fuel; its Rolls-Royce MT30 gas turbines are much larger than the General Electric LM2500 turbines that drive most Navy surface combatants. Independence has LM2500s, so it’s possible the Navy’s long experience with them will mean sailors can run the ship more efficiently. Or not.

    Independence and Freedom are both more than a year late and at least 100 percent over budget. The ships were pitched to Congress at a price of about $220 million each, but Navy budget documents for fiscal 2010 put the cost for Independence at about $704 million and for Freedom at about $637 million.

    Freedom, which was commissioned in November, is undergoing testing at Naval Station Norfolk, Va. The Navy hopes to take delivery of Independence this summer and commission it this fall.

    Test run
    Independence was set to spend four days at sea conducting tests of its engineering plant and other onboard systems. Weapons, most sensors and the ship’s waterborne mission area — from which it will launch and recover unmanned vehicles — will be tested on later outings.

    During builder’s trials, Independence likely will cruise on its diesels only, then on its gas turbines only, then run all four engines together on a high-speed full-power run. Standard builder’s trial demonstrations also include running the ship at full power astern; a “crash-back” drill, in which the ship goes from full ahead to full astern; high-speed turns; and other tests.

    Engineers also will watch how the ship’s unique aluminum hull behaves at high speeds and in rough seas.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 30 Sep 09, at 20:35.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  12. #12
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Jan 06
    Location
    DPRK, Demokratik People's Republik of Kalifornia
    Posts
    23,782
    The Independence looks so cool. Hopefully she won't be so expensive if and when she is being mass produced.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  13. #13
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    The Independence looks so cool. Hopefully she won't be so expensive if and when she is being mass produced.
    *She is rather cool looking isint she?) Must play hell with the helmsman when she is docking with that slim long nose. Like parking a top fuel dragster.
    Might even have cameras to assist in the bow being shes brand new.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  14. #14
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    A few more. Note in the second one how fast she recovers from a high speed turn. (Look at the wake) Now thats steering response
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  15. #15
    Senior Contributor Rumrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Jul 09
    Location
    New York, NY - Da Heights
    Posts
    971
    Here ya go Dread - mid turn

    Attachment 16378
    You know JJ, Him could do it....

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Australia ís Hazard(ous) Frigate Upgrade
    By xinhui in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 27 Nov 08,, 22:41
  2. Stealth ships for the Swedish Navy
    By 101st Airborne in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21 Mar 07,, 07:22
  3. Royal Navy ASW, MW,careers, etc
    By rickusn in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04 Dec 06,, 20:12
  4. New Rules for New Enemies
    By Shek in forum The Field Mess
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12 Nov 06,, 00:01
  5. 2003 CONOPS chp 8-9 & appendix's
    By Defcon 6 in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07 Jul 06,, 04:38

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •