Littoral Combat Ships

**MatthewS3522** · 06 Oct 09,, 15:14

land attack precisions weapons=small boxes of netfires missiles

**Dreadnought** · 06 Oct 09,, 15:49

She can pretty much be outfitted for several different missions. RAM is only a portable armament. It is not mission dependant and can be changed anytime they wish while in port or dry dock. So long as they protect the deck and superstructure with blast shielding they could also possibly mount Harpoons as well. All weight dependant. We should also keep in mind her purpose, rivers and waterways primarily. Hence the rapid fire guns.

**JA Boomer** · 06 Oct 09,, 17:30

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

The new 127 meter long Independence Class LCS will provide a platform for intelligence gathering, employ surface (anti-ship) and land attacks precision weapons, and operate manned and unmanned aerial and surface vehicles (UAV/USV).

Right, but as has been mentioned this is the NLOS missile system. Probably more than capable of destroyer small boats and non-hardened land targets, but not much good against a real warship. That's not her real mission though, fair enough, but again, what's the status of the NLOS system? Is the Navy going to continue development now that Future Combat Systems has been scrapped?

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

She can pretty much be outfitted for several different missions. RAM is only a portable armament. It is not mission dependant and can be changed anytime they wish while in port or dry dock. So long as they protect the deck and superstructure with blast shielding they could also possibly mount Harpoons as well. All weight dependant. We should also keep in mind her purpose, rivers and waterways primarily. Hence the rapid fire guns.

Harpoons would be useful. Still no ESSM which I think is a big flaw in these designs. I suppose you could mount a Mk 48 launcher similar to what we have on the Halifax-class, but the Mk 41 isn't exactly a system you can plug in and out.

How in the hell are you going to sail a 115-127 meter long ship up a river?

**Dreadnought** · 06 Oct 09,, 17:41

Originally Posted by JA Boomer

Right, but as has been mentioned this is the NLOS missile system. Probably more than capable of destroyer small boats and non-hardened land targets, but not much good against a real warship. That's not her real mission though, fair enough, but again, what's the status of the NLOS system? Is the Navy going to continue development now that Future Combat Systems has been scrapped?

Harpoons would be useful. Still no ESSM which I think is a big flaw in these designs. I suppose you could mount a Mk 48 launcher similar to what we have on the Halifax-class, but the Mk 41 isn't exactly a system you can plug in and out.

How in the hell are you going to sail a 115-127 meter long ship up a river?

*In essence even the Harpoon is overkill for the ship. Its not her job, her job as being a "Littorial" combat ship in being is in close deterrence aided by the two helos aboard. Neither is combating another surface ship of naval origin. She is not protected enough for such engagements and her rocket/missle capability will more then likely be "by the box" or deployment package containers. One major thing to keep in mind is that she is aluminum and steel, when aluminum burns (say from rocket propellant) it releases chlorine gas. Not a good thing.

*How you ask? Look at her sea trials and you will see just how agile the ship is. It has gas turbine/diesel and water jets to assist in manuvering.

**Rumrunner** · 06 Oct 09,, 18:09

Originally Posted by JA Boomer

How in the hell are you going to sail a 115-127 meter long ship up a river?

She's got a max draft of 4.5m or 14.75 feet, so that puts the majority of the world's major navigable rivers in her reach - with the only hinderance being air clearance from bridges.

**MatthewS3522** · 06 Oct 09,, 18:38

Did someone from here edit the wiki page for the LCS-2?

USS Independence (LCS-2) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the armament listed and of course there are no sources. Who the hell added all of this? 2 CIWS???

* BAE Systems Mk 110 57 mm gun[2]
* 4× .50-cal guns (2 aft, 2 forward)
* Evolved SeaRAM 11 cell missile launcher
* 32 missile Vertical Launch System
* 8 Harpoon missiles
* 2 Close-in Weapons Systems
* 6 ASW Torpedoes
* Mission modules

**Dreadnought** · 06 Oct 09,, 18:45

Originally Posted by MatthewS3522

Did someone from here edit the wiki page for the LCS-2?

USS Independence (LCS-2) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the armament listed and of course there are no sources. Who the hell added all of this? 2 CIWS???

* BAE Systems Mk 110 57 mm gun[2]
* 4× .50-cal guns (2 aft, 2 forward)
* Evolved SeaRAM 11 cell missile launcher
* 32 missile Vertical Launch System
* 8 Harpoon missiles
* 2 Close-in Weapons Systems
* 6 ASW Torpedoes
* Mission modules

*Hint, never trust Wiki for accuracy, even Navsource does not list her armament and needless to say Wiki couldnt hold a candle to Navsource when it comes to accuracy. Its no doubt wrong.

**JA Boomer** · 06 Oct 09,, 19:05

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

One major thing to keep in mind is that she is aluminum and steel, when aluminum burns (say from rocket propellant) it releases chlorine gas. Not a good thing.

Isn't the Freedom constructed out of steel and the Independence out of aluminium?

**Dreadnought** · 06 Oct 09,, 19:07

Originally Posted by JA Boomer

Isn't the Freedom constructed out of steel and the Independence out of aluminium?

I believe Freedom is steel, Independence is aluminum but you still have steel as reinforcement etc.

**MatthewS3522** · 06 Oct 09,, 19:09

I'm sure this has been discussed on here before but i'm new to the board. Why did the Freedom Class use the 21 cell RAM installation and the Independence used the 11 cell SeaRAM? What are the benefits of each? I believe this is the first use of SeaRAM aboard a USN ship.

**Dreadnought** · 06 Oct 09,, 19:11

This is all (armament) that Navsource lists at the moment for LCS-2 Independence:

Bofors 57mm naval gun
Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) launcher
3 - .50-caliber machine gun mounts

*No mention of torps, VLS, Harpoons or Phaylynx.

*The rest of the armament would cause massive weight gain alone, change the draft of the ship and reduce its sprint speeds of 50+ knots..

**ArmchairGeneral** · 06 Oct 09,, 21:55

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

One major thing to keep in mind is that she is aluminum and steel, when aluminum burns (say from rocket propellant) it releases chlorine gas. Not a good thing.

Huh? When aluminum burns on its own it releases nothing but heat and aluminum oxide.

**Dreadnought** · 07 Oct 09,, 13:22

Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral

Huh? When aluminum burns on its own it releases nothing but heat and aluminum oxide.

Ever try burning aluminum or galvanized with a oxy/acety torch? The gases released are just nasty to humans.

**Rumrunner** · 07 Oct 09,, 14:20

Her Aluminum-heavy construction is a major drawback for the Independence. Regardless of what it releaseses when it burns, it still burns. One would think the USN learned it's lesson after the Belknap disaster - something caused by human error, not combat.
Attachment 16440

**Dreadnought** · 07 Oct 09,, 15:38

Originally Posted by Rumrunner

Her Aluminum-heavy construction is a major drawback for the Independence. Regardless of what it releaseses when it burns, it still burns. One would think the USN learned it's lesson after the Belknap disaster - something caused by human error, not combat.
Attachment 16440

Only way your steering that ship is from either forward steerage below or the rudder room.