Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
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Julius Caesar vs Alexander the Great
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Originally posted by zraver View PostAs Darius found out, when Alexander is on your tail he will simply follow you to the ends of the Earth. At some point Caesar would have to turn and fight.
Give Caesar time to prepare and the odds shift dramatically in his favour.Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 16 Jun 09,, 03:46.
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Originally posted by Mihais View PostSee Caesar's ''Gallic Wars'' ;also Tacitus and Arrianus as ancient sources.
More recent one-''Cavalry Operations in the Ancient Greek World'' by Robert E. Gaebel.There are also some interesting papers written by US Army CGSC students,but I don't have them at hand right now and I don't remember the authors names.All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostGive Caesar time to prepare and the odds shift dramatically in his favour.
I have to give the edge to Alexander as far as tactical brilliance is concerned but like Rommel against Montgomery, Caesar may lose battles but he will win campaigns against Alexander.
In fact, Alexander against Caesar is almost a repeat of Hannibal against Cassius.
The Roman engineering works at Alesia renders all of Alexander's advantages moot.
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I don't understand why some consdier Alesia to be a mistake because Ceasar allowed himself to be pinned between a besieged city and a relieving force. The point was that he deliberately laid siege to a city in spite of the presence of a relief force and beat them both down.All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostAs an engineer, it was the greatest work in history. An offensive and defensive work within the same operational enviroment.
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Originally posted by zraver View PostSir with all due respect- driving a half mile long 200 yard wide mole to Tyre trumps that. Alexanders engineers were every bit as good as Caesar's.
You've missed the point.
I agree absolutely that Tyre matches Alesia BUT Caesar's Alesia shaped the battlefield while Alexander's Tyre was obstacle breaching.
Do you see the difference?
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Originally posted by Triple C View PostGotcha. Which brings the question: What did Caesar mean when he send the Germanic cavalry to "charge" the Gaullic flank or rear? Granted that that the effect was auxilliary to the infantry effort, I am having trouble seeing how this light infantry and cavalry mixed force fight on a tactical level.
It worked by having young and resilient men run side by side,literally,with the horsemen.When they neared the enemy,they launched javelins and then either stood to allow friendly cav to reform behind them,or intermingled in the melee.So in case the friendly horse are beaten back,they won't be routed.Those who know don't speak
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostZ,
You've missed the point.
I agree absolutely that Tyre matches Alesia BUT Caesar's Alesia shaped the battlefield while Alexander's Tyre was obstacle breaching.
Do you see the difference?
BTW the Romans did this since imemorial times on all sorts of foes.It worked best against large eastern forces and against the GAuls.
Sir,the Romans had a saying:war are won with the spade.Those who know don't speak
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
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Originally posted by Mihais View PostSir,Caesar shaping the battlefield was not unique in the respect that he had done it before in GAul.
Compare that to Alexander when 2000 Elephants essentially said, "screw you" and Alexander ran with his tail between his legs.
My point here is that if you allow Caesar to have a prepared defence, he will collober Alexander's hasty attack.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostOn the tactical level and never on the operational level, let alone the strategic level. The relief force at Alesia should have been able to carry on the war ... but Caesar read it right that it was done at Alesia.
Compare that to Alexander when 2000 Elephants essentially said, "screw you" and Alexander ran with his tail between his legs.
My point here is that if you allow Caesar to have a prepared defence, he will collober Alexander's hasty attack.
Sir, if Caesar prepares a defense, then wouldn't be more like obstacle breaching? Or unless he retreated into a fortified place like a city or fortress couldn't Alexander simply move around the Roman lines? Alexander had experience crossing rivers, mountains and other natural barriers in the face of the enemy. He also reduced far more cities and fortresses than any conqueror until Genghis Khan. I think your not giving the Macedonian engineers enough credit.
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Originally posted by Mihais View PostIt worked by having young and resilient men run side by side,literally,with the horsemen.When they neared the enemy,they launched javelins and then either stood to allow friendly cav to reform behind them,or intermingled in the melee.So in case the friendly horse are beaten back,they won't be routed.Last edited by Triple C; 16 Jun 09,, 12:02.All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.
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Z,
Originally posted by zraver View PostSir, Alexander beat the Indians, sufering around 1,000 losses for 21-23,000 Indian losses. He had arounf 41,000 men vs as many as 58,000 Indians including 200 Elephants. He completely routed the Elephants and Indian cavalry and ended up with the Indians facing the phalanx on one side and the Cavalry on the other so they surrendered. He then co-opted them and made Porus his regent.
Originally posted by zraver View PostSir, if Caesar prepares a defense, then wouldn't be more like obstacle breaching?All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.
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