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  • India riots after Vienna Sikh clash

    A BBC video is in the link below.

    India riots after Vienna Sikh clash
    25 May [BBC] Rival Sikh groups have clashed in the Indian state of Punjab, after a violent dispute at a Sikh temple in Austria left at least sixteen people wounded - among them a guru who later died of his injuries.

    Within hours of the death in Vienna, thousands of protesters took to the streets in the city of Jalandhar and nearby towns. ...

  • #2
    Curfew is imposed in a city in Punjab India to stop the violence which seems to be caste based, among the Sikh community.

    Curfew in Indian city after Austrian temple clash
    1 hr ago AMRITSAR, India (AFP) — Indian police imposed a curfew in the northern city of Jalandhar after violence erupted over a clash between rival Sikh communities in Austria that left one man dead.

    Troops in Jalandhar guarded streets to halt overnight rioting in which mobs pelted buses with stones and torched vehicles in several towns across the state of Punjab.

    Rival Sikhs fought in a temple in the Austrian capital Sunday, with 56-year-old guru Sant Rama Nand shot dead and about 30 people injured.

    A second guru, Sant Niranjan Dass, 66, was wounded in the dispute, which centres around caste-based disagreements.

    The two gurus, who belong to a group representing low-caste Sikhs, were visiting Austria from India and were preaching when they were attacked.

    The temple in Vienna, which opened in 2005, has campaigned against the caste system that remains popular among some Sikhs. It has been accused of not strictly following Sikh traditions.

    In Jalandhar, where many low-caste Sikhs live, protesters furious at the guru's death erected road blocks on national highways to stop traffic. ...

    No injuries were reported from the disturbances in Punjab.

    The Sikh religious community has about 2,800 followers in Austria and 25 million worldwide, most of them in northern India.

    Comment


    • #3
      I bet most of these people in - jaalunder don't even know where is Vienna !!

      what happened in Vienna is just insane but Its crazy how some people have a rowdy and unexplainable way of raising their voice. i think this will only give them a negative face in front of their own country.
      Only god can judge me !

      Comment


      • #4
        This is another case that religions can bring out strong violent emotions without the need for clear rational reasons and judgements.

        Comment


        • #5
          Nothing shoot-on-sight orders cant solve. Those guys rioting are not even Sikhs which they claim to be; they're far more concerned with their caste than the Sikh religion. Better yet, they should round up all the leaders who are behind these protests and lock them up!! Who the hell gives a damn about some dead opportunistic so called "guru"; you'll find these guys are dime a dozen!!! Lock them all up and ban this stupid "guru-ship" or sant-ship" or whatever the hell these guys have going. They only brainwash poor uneducated people, divide society, and then have things like this happen. And the best response of the government is to sit aside and watch until the mess goes totally out of control, bloody brilliant!
          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

          Comment


          • #6
            Utter nonsense going in Punjab. The police should use the footage from the news crews and just round up the main leaders. Once the leaders are caught the rabble will just disintegrate.

            Comment


            • #7
              Should caste-based discrimation be treated as racism?

              Vienna clash may put caste in global spotlight
              26 May [IndiaTimes] NEW DELHI: Caste fingerprints on the sensational Vienna shootout among Sikhs could result in renewed international pressure for recognition of caste-based discrimination as a global concern, with many hinting at a revived clamour for treating casteism as racism.

              The ghost of Durban conference in 2001, where India fought back a determined and coordinated bid by NGOs to recognise casteism as racism, may raise its head again. Only this month, Indian government is said to have rebuffed a fresh offensive from Scandinavian countries underlining their stand on caste-race parity. ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Merlin View Post
                Should caste-based discrimation be treated as racism?

                Vienna clash may put caste in global spotlight
                This is a very complicated issue. There is no black and white in this case, there are only shades of grey and that too hundreds of them.

                This is so complicated that Religious leaders from the Muslim and Christain community are trying to push for Muslim Dalits and Christain Dalits. Obviously there is some advantage in being a dalit also, in today's time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sumob View Post
                  This is a very complicated issue. There is no black and white in this case, there are only shades of grey and that too hundreds of them.

                  This is so complicated that Religious leaders from the Muslim and Christain community are trying to push for Muslim Dalits and Christain Dalits. Obviously there is some advantage in being a dalit also, in today's time.
                  Sumob,

                  I don't know the ins & outs of the caste system, so I'll make a comment that applies broadly. Any society that limits the potential of any significant group, whether on the grounds of their race, social status, gender, religion, sexuality or any other reason will fail to fulfill its potential. That was and in some cases still is true of western societies & it is true elsewhere.

                  Indeed, an extreme example is the observation that cities with large & prominent homosexual communities are actually more economically productive. This isn't to do with the qualities of homosexuals themselves, but the fact that the sort of places where they feel comfortable are also likely to attract the sort of creative & innovative people who drive economies.

                  Egalitarian societies are successful societies. Prejudiced societies shackle themselves.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                    Nothing shoot-on-sight orders cant solve. Those guys rioting are not even Sikhs which they claim to be; they're far more concerned with their caste than the Sikh religion. Better yet, they should round up all the leaders who are behind these protests and lock them up!! Who the hell gives a damn about some dead opportunistic so called "guru"; you'll find these guys are dime a dozen!!! Lock them all up and ban this stupid "guru-ship" or sant-ship" or whatever the hell these guys have going. They only brainwash poor uneducated people, divide society, and then have things like this happen. And the best response of the government is to sit aside and watch until the mess goes totally out of control, bloody brilliant!
                    What a brilliant understanding you have of the whole issue....NOT
                    When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                      Sumob,

                      I don't know the ins & outs of the caste system, so I'll make a comment that applies broadly. Any society that limits the potential of any significant group, whether on the grounds of their race, social status, gender, religion, sexuality or any other reason will fail to fulfill its potential. That was and in some cases still is true of western societies & it is true elsewhere.

                      Indeed, an extreme example is the observation that cities with large & prominent homosexual communities are actually more economically productive. This isn't to do with the qualities of homosexuals themselves, but the fact that the sort of places where they feel comfortable are also likely to attract the sort of creative & innovative people who drive economies.

                      Egalitarian societies are successful societies. Prejudiced societies shackle themselves.
                      Bigfella,

                      No one disputes the statement that the caste system is good. However, the reason why this is not a black and white question anymore is reservations (think affirmative action, on a mega scale). Ever since the government in the early nineties saw it fit to reserve large quantities of seats for backward/ less well developed castes in public institutions (govt. jobs/ colleges), identity politics have been haunting India. There is a race to get clasified into one of these castes to reap the benefits of reservations. There are political parties which exists soely to cater to one caste or another.

                      In my view, this has divided the different strata of castes further.

                      The Government could have taken the difficult but correct route to develop infrastructure and society in such a way as to remove discrimination. But, no, they had to take the easy way out and do "postivie discrimination"
                      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                        Sumob,

                        I don't know the ins & outs of the caste system, so I'll make a comment that applies broadly. Any society that limits the potential of any significant group, whether on the grounds of their race, social status, gender, religion, sexuality or any other reason will fail to fulfill its potential. That was and in some cases still is true of western societies & it is true elsewhere.

                        Indeed, an extreme example is the observation that cities with large & prominent homosexual communities are actually more economically productive. This isn't to do with the qualities of homosexuals themselves, but the fact that the sort of places where they feel comfortable are also likely to attract the sort of creative & innovative people who drive economies.

                        Egalitarian societies are successful societies. Prejudiced societies shackle themselves.
                        Bigfella,

                        I am completely in agreement with you on the caste issue. This whole issue is complete Hogwash and I am happy to see that we are taking this head on by discussing it and not by hiding it under the carpet.

                        However this is a situation which has been complicated IMO due to
                        1. Poor Education
                        2. Lack of employement oppurtunities/ poverty

                        Once we are able to address this twin issues the whole caste problem will be solved.

                        A case in point is the Private Sector in India. Here merit decides your status and not your caste. when you apply for a job in the Pvt. Sector there is no coloumn for Caste.

                        However in the Govt. Depts. due to the various affermative action plans you have to mention your caste, as certain percentage of jobs are reserved for the backward castes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Knaur Amarsh View Post
                          What a brilliant understanding you have of the whole issue....NOT
                          So why don't you enlighten me?
                          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Casteism

                            Well look at the irony people! That "guru" who was shot was shot in a gurudwara belonging to a lower caste sect. Now for a religion which rejects casteism, that itself is pretty despicable. Gurudwaras are meant to be for all people from all walks of life, no wonder there is a problem when so called "lower castes" start running their own versions of Sikhism. This was bound to happen. Sikhs have been agitated one thing after another. Dera Sacha Sauda issue barely died down and now this. Also, the chaps rioting are not Sikhs! They follow only that Deras ideology, and not Sikhism.

                            A bit of a contrast between Sikhs and the dera group:

                            Sikhs:


                            Dera chaps:


                            True Sikhs are suppose to be sardars, and the one who are not are suppose to be learning to go down that path. The difference between the two is quite obvious, and shows which group is more dedicated to the tenets of Sikhism and which group is more concerned with merely their caste!

                            Also, the media is being an ass about it and claiming it to be "high caste" Sikhs vs. "low caste" Sikhs. Thats totally not the case! Its more like Sikhs vs some cult!
                            Last edited by Tronic; 26 May 09,, 17:00.
                            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Recent violence has cost Punjab Rs7000cr
                              Recent violence has cost Punjab Rs7000cr - India - The Times of India

                              Damn fools. I'd love to see the people caught on camera (and there were many) now jailed for a few years.

                              Comment

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