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"When is that woman going die?" -Michael Schiavo

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  • #16
    Originally posted by barrowaj
    I'm not sure what you mean by the 2nd sentence
    There are more than 1000 euthanasia cases in the US every year.
    Originally posted by barrowaj
    but my point is that if it were the other way around, with the parents wanting to withdraw treatment, then there wouldn't even be an issue made about this.
    If it were the other way around, Mike would be contesting it, and the legislature and executive would be intervening on his behalf.
    Originally posted by barrowaj
    So the way I see it its just the fact that the parents wishes coincide with the beliefs of the religious right that they are pushing for their will.
    I submit that with the press this has recieved the exec and legislature would be involved either way. They need the votes, but it would still be led by the right to lifers, though many of those aren't religious, or right.
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Lickenmueller
      diese Frau ist wertlos. bringen Sie sie in einem Lager.

      Prosto,

      Wertlos = worthless.

      I think he is saying, the girl is worthless. Bring her in their bed.

      What would be the correct translation?


      "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

      I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

      HAKUNA MATATA

      Comment


      • #18
        My german is very very rusty. I know it says... the woman is worthless... but I'm not sure what the last part means.
        "Our citizenship in the United States is our national character. Our citizenship in any particular state is only our local distinction. By the latter we are known at home, by the former to the world. Our great title is AMERICANS…" -- Thomas Paine

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        • #19
          The women is dead and people act like the are starving someone who can feel it. It is time for her to move on and for everyone in the family to get back to living there life.

          Comment


          • #20
            Eric,

            I don't think that is the translation.

            In case what you wrote is not the translation, please apply it to your child in case you have one or to your mother in case you don't have a child.

            Then tell us your reaction.

            Blood is thicker than water, mamu.


            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

            HAKUNA MATATA

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Ray
              Eric,

              I don't think that is the translation.

              In case what you wrote is not the translation, please apply it to your child in case you have one or to your mother in case you don't have a child.

              Then tell us your reaction.

              Blood is thicker than water, mamu.
              I hope i dont have a child ;)

              I was not translating I am just tired of hearing about this case. There is no life to save. would you try this hard to save a cat, no. but people are still trying to save a body with less brain function than a cat.
              Last edited by EricTheRed; 28 Mar 05,, 20:26.

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              • #22
                Ok i might be late on this but i translated it. he said - This woman is bring worthless. you it in a warehouse.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I've been sittin on the sidelines on this matter...and this is the way that I look at it.

                  For what it's worth...Terri is a living breathing person, who does have constitutional rights as a human being. There are thirty or so doctors that have said that she is not in a persistant vegetative state, that she does respond to stimuli, and she does recognize those that are around her.

                  Michael will not allow any family...extended or otherwise to sit with her, he will not allow her to receive final communion from a priest...wonder why....could it be because she might actually swallow the bread and wine? If that's the case, then it would prove him wrong, and also prove the courts wrong. For a dead person cannot swallow...

                  I've heard doctors say that she is in no pain from the starvation, and that it will be a peaceful death...I ask this in response...THEN WHY IN THE HELL IS SHE ON MORPHINE???

                  Do you guys who are in favor of this know what a starving person looks like?
                  take a look



                  Here are some symptoms of starvation...Tell me this isn't painful

                  Niacin deficiency produces pellagra characterized by diarrhea, skin rashes, brain dysfunction, tongue, mouth and vaginal irritation, and trouble swallowing.

                  Thiamine (Vitamin B1) deficiency causes beriberi, which can appear as heart failure and edema, a brain and nerve disease, or both.

                  Riboflavin deficiency causes a sore mouth and throat, a skin rash, and anemia.

                  Lack of vitamin C (ascorbic acid)--scurvy--causes hair damage, bleeding under the skin, in muscles and joints, gum disease, poor wound healing, and in severe cases convulsions, fever, loss of blood pressure and death.

                  Vitamin B12 is needed to keep the nervous system working right, and it and pyridoxine (vitamin B6) are both necessary for blood formation.

                  Vitamin A deficiency causes at first loss of night vision and eventually blindness from destruction of the cornea, a disease called keratomalacia.

                  Vitamin K is necessary for blood clotting.

                  Vitamin D regulates calcium balance. Without it, children get rickets and adults get osteomalacia.

                  Since the body will combat malnutrition by breaking down its own fat and eventually its own tissue, a whole host of symptoms can appear. The body's structure, as well as its functions, are affected.

                  Characteristic symptoms of starvation include:

                  Shrinkage of vital organs, such as the heart, lungs, and ovaries or testes, and their functions.
                  Chronic diarrhea
                  Anemia
                  Reduction in muscle mass and weakness because of it
                  Low body temperature
                  Decreased ability to digest food because of lack of digestive acid production
                  Irritability
                  Immune deficiency
                  Swelling from fluid under the skin
                  Decreased sex drive.


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Confed999
                    There are more than 1000 euthanasia cases in the US every year.
                    I'm not sure where you got that statistic from, but this isn't a case of euthanasia anyway. Withdrawing treatment is not actively causing someone's death. This is really irrelevant anyway, because Schiavo isn't alive, she is in a persistant vegetative state-- she's braindead. She can't feel the fact that her body will die from starvation because the pain centers in her brain are destroyed. As an aside irrelevant to this case, complete starvation isn't all that painful after the first few days. Your body starts producing endorphins, and the hunger pangs will go away.

                    Originally posted by Confed999
                    If it were the other way around, Mike would be contesting it, and the legislature and executive would be intervening on his behalf.
                    If Mike wanted his wife to continue feeding and her parents didn't, their wishes would not be heeded at all. He is by law her living attourney, and so his decision is the one that counts, not her parents. If they wanted to contest his competency, they could do so in court, but this wouldn't involve the executive branch at all. So what I am saying is that the executive and legislative branches are overstepping their powers. Cases like this, and the reverse, like Terry Shiavo's happen from time to time, but they are resolved in court, or through negotiation.

                    Originally posted by Confed999
                    I submit that with the press this has recieved the exec and legislature would be involved either way. They need the votes, but it would still be led by the right to lifers, though many of those aren't religious, or right.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Well if starvation is that bad why dont the just give her a lethal injection. That would not hurt

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Julie
                        I seen that. Ya know, it amazes me how the husband should have any grounds to petition the court for her death. I mean, should he have any say in her welfare when he's been committing adultery against her for the last 7 years?
                        Well what do you want him to do, have relations with her as a veggie. Then it would be rape.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by EricTheRed
                          Well if starvation is that bad why dont the just give her a lethal injection. That would not hurt
                          Here in Oregon we have a "Right to Die" law that allready has the conservative minded republicans' pantys in a bunch. Through Ashcroft, they have taken the law to court once or twice and have lost . Now Ashcroft is pressuring the doctors in the state to not prescribe a lethal dose. (even though he does not have a legal leg to stand on) Putting the poor woman out of her misery will not happen in Jeb Bush's state. He would rather let her starve to death first.
                          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by barrowaj
                            I'm not sure where you got that statistic from, but this isn't a case of euthanasia anyway.
                            The AMA spokesman on TV. The AMA considers it a case.
                            Originally posted by barrowaj
                            she's braindead.
                            Actually only her ceribral cortex is dead, liquified in fact. The brain stem still functions controlling autonomic responses. That's why she's not on a respirator, etc..
                            Originally posted by barrowaj
                            He is by law her living attourney, and so his decision is the one that counts, not her parents.
                            If it were the "other way around", then her parents would be her living attourney.
                            Originally posted by barrowaj
                            this wouldn't involve the executive branch at all. So what I am saying is that the executive and legislative branches are overstepping their powers. Cases like this, and the reverse, like Terry Shiavo's happen from time to time, but they are resolved in court, or through negotiation.
                            I think you've got me figured for the wrong side on this. I agree with you, but I saw the vote in the legislature, and unless you're telling me the Democrats that voted to contest the court's decision are part of the "religious right", I don't see your point.
                            No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                            I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                            even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                            He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bonehead
                              Putting the poor woman out of her misery will not happen in Jeb Bush's state. He would rather let her starve to death first.
                              The executive branch does not impose laws of their making on the electorate. Until recently this was a predominately Democrat state, why didn't they make the law if it's such a wonderful liberal thing to do?
                              No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                              I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                              even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                              He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Ok lets just say she is not a veggie. Well it is still ONE life and the money being spent for all of this could save alot more lifes.

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