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  • #76
    BB64 Wisconsin gets a 6.2 million dollar facelift.

    NORFOLK, Va. — Norfolk officials have eagerly waited for the day when tourists could peer through the battleship Wisconsin's berthing areas and traipse through the ship's combat center.
    Now after years of negotiations and environmental reviews, the Navy has finally granted ownership of the Wisconsin to the city.

    Vice Adm. David Architzel signed the contract Monday, more than three years after the city asked for permission to maintain and run the Wisconsin as a tourist attraction.

    The move will allow the city to begin spending $6.2 million that it set aside years ago to renovate the interior of the ship, which is moored next to Nauticus. Currently, it is partially open to the public.

    Visitors can tour limited portions of the Wisconsin's deck. But by next spring, Nauticus director Hank Lynch said he expects to begin offering tours of parts of the ship's interior. Within three years, he said, most of the ship's entire interior will be open, including the combat information center, berthing areas, and the barber and doughnut shops.

    "We want to show people everything it took to take care of the 2,000 human beings on that ship," he said.

    But that will all come with a price. Beginning Saturday, anyone who wants to tour the ship's deck will have to buy a ticket to enter Nauticus.

    Admission to the Wisconsin is now free. On Saturday, it will cost an adult $10.95 to enter both attractions.

    "This is the most powerful ship the Navy ever built," Lynch said. "It's not just an icon of the American Navy, it's an icon of the American spirit.

    "These things cost a lot of money to maintain. I don't think anyone will balk at paying a modest admission."

    Since opening to tourists in 2001, the Wisconsin became a symbol for downtown, Mayor Paul Fraim said.

    "This is a wonderful moment for the city," he said.

    Fraim said the city had hoped to gain ownership of the battleship two years ago, but environmental reviews "dragged this out much longer than anyone expected."

    Nauticus draws about 200,000 paying customers a year, not including another 200,000 who tour the Wisconsin for free, Lynch said.

    Once the interior is open, Lynch said, he expects "attendance will grow very vigorously."

    Built in Philadelphia, the Wisconsin was commissioned in 1944, and saw action in the Pacific during World War II, where it earned five battle stars.

    It was deactivated in 1948 and activated again in 1951 for the Korean War. It was decommissioned again in 1958, recommissioned in 1988 and was homeported in Norfolk.

    It participated in the Persian Gulf War in 1991 before being decommissioned for the final time later that year. The ship arrived at its current site Dec. 7, 2000, the 59th anniversary of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor.

    Lynch said the ship is in remarkably good condition. The city paid for an inspection, including divers who checked out the hull.

    But a lot needs to be done before it can open fully to the public, he said. It must be cleaned of any hazardous materials, including asbestos. Then the heating and cooling systems must be overhauled.

    "A warship is different from the typical facility you allow the public to go into," he said. "But we'll get it open to the public as quickly as we can."

    Norfolk, Va., plans $6.2 million overhaul of battleship Wisconsin - USATODAY.com

    Hmm, thats two that are getting facelift.:))
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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    • #77
      I don't understand why any/all of these groups dont just buy their Iowas outright.

      A few years ago,I could see why. With the Navy keeping some of them in reserve, not letting the parts go away. But that law does not apply anymore.

      Do like the people of North Carolina and Alabama did. Then you can open whatever spaces you want.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
        I don't understand why any/all of these groups dont just buy their Iowas outright.

        A few years ago,I could see why. With the Navy keeping some of them in reserve, not letting the parts go away. But that law does not apply anymore.

        Do like the people of North Carolina and Alabama did. Then you can open whatever spaces you want.
        *Speaking off the record ofcoarse,

        Grape, there are clauses written into the foundation contracts when part-ownership is taken of the Iowa class BB's. You would be surprised just how much the Navy has to say about how this class of ship will be maintained, operated, exibited etc etc (they set these rules when the bids are recieved and evaluated as to who gets the ship my guess is that Rusty will find this out very soon if Iowa is sucessfull). Do it naught and you wont have the ship very long as the USN still holds final ownership/responsibility of the vessels. They are very quiet about them but no doubt they hold ubber majority of say as to what happens aboard them and how they are to be taken care of. There are many unanswered questions as to the "why" but that is far above the paygrade of those of us that care for them and give our time.

        Alas, all that can be said for this one person is that he is proud to be a very small part of a very large group of people that are entrusted with such magnificient ships.
        Last edited by Dreadnought; 30 Dec 09,, 20:06.
        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by dundonrl View Post
          ummm, no.. a TRS-80 would be FAST compared to the computers used to program the TLAM's in the gulf war...

          being a Tomahawk tech onboard the USS Halsey DDG 97 and having the latest and greatest TLAM computers in the fleet.. you don't want to know their specs.. lets just say that a Pentium processor (Tillamook) would have more computing power..
          I'm sorry this is a bit late.

          How much power does it really need to program coordinates into a missile? It's not like there's a lot of 3D coordinates to compute as in a game, or lighting and textures to fill in graphics. We went to the moon with a pocket calculator.

          Most of the time computers sit idle. The actual time that they are being used are to render the pretty GUIs that look nice.
          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
            I don't understand why any/all of these groups dont just buy their Iowas outright.

            A few years ago,I could see why. With the Navy keeping some of them in reserve, not letting the parts go away. But that law does not apply anymore.

            Do like the people of North Carolina and Alabama did. Then you can open whatever spaces you want.
            Alabama, yes, but I'm pretty sure BB55 is still technically the property of the Navy. It wasn't until the 90's that one of the barbettes and shell-handling and storage areas was opened on the North Carolina.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
              *Speaking off the record ofcoarse,

              Grape, there are clauses written into the foundation contracts when part-ownership is taken of the Iowa class BB's. You would be surprised just how much the Navy has to say about how this class of ship will be maintained, operated, exibited etc etc (they set these rules when the bids are recieved and evaluated as to who gets the ship my guess is that Rusty will find this out very soon if Iowa is sucessfull). Do it naught and you wont have the ship very long as the USN still holds final ownership/responsibility of the vessels. They are very quiet about them but no doubt they hold ubber majority of say as to what happens aboard them and how they are to be taken care of. There are many unanswered questions as to the "why" but that is far above the paygrade of those of us that care for them and give our time.

              Alas, all that can be said for this one person is that he is proud to be a very small part of a very large group of people that are entrusted with such magnificient ships.
              Understood. But those contracts were written when the Navy was keeping some of the Iowas in war reserve. Thats no longer the case.

              So now would be the time to renegotiate, and buy the ships outright.

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              • #82
                Difference in access.

                I can speak of my impressions addresing access to the Massachusetts as compared to the New Jersey. ( Night & Day )

                The self guided tour of the Massachusetts seemed wide open :))
                ( Like I got lost well below decks on a warm Fall weekday, but saw a lot)

                I paid for the first class tour on a Saturday afternoon ( Fall of 2007) of the New Jersey and found the guide well versed, but he recited often that many areas were closed to public and restricted.

                Recent tours and access may have changed, but I know that the day spent on the Massachusetts was a one heck of a learning experience.

                Can anyone add about the access to "other BB's" ?
                " Lite all burners, make all steam! "

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by connaye View Post
                  Can anyone add about the access to "other BB's" ?

                  Alabama has access to a main gun ammunition magazine, whereupon you can see the nasty dent in the deck caused by a dropped 16-inch projectile.
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                    Understood. But those contracts were written when the Navy was keeping some of the Iowas in war reserve. Thats no longer the case.

                    So now would be the time to renegotiate, and buy the ships outright.
                    I still don't think that is possible. I'll use the Hornet as an example. She was sold to an Oregon scrapper in the early 90's. Was moved around from Bremerton to Long Beach and then to Hunters Point by 1995. The Navy was never going to use that ship again for obvious reasons. The ship was borrowed by Captain Dodge, NAS Alameda commander, for a the 50th Anniversary of the end of WWII. She was towed across the bay and set up a Pier 3 with the Lincoln on the other side. After a few months it was time for her to go back and have her scrapping contract fulfilled. Now a group wanted to get the Hornet but the Navy denied it outright without review. Captain Dodge, at the risk of his career, pointed out to the group a flaw in the Navy's rejection. That resulted in a law suit and the group won. Also, it helped that the scrapping company wanted out of the contract as scrapping was not economically viable. The scrapping contract was $200,000 I believe. We had $3 million in the initial account when the Navy turned the ship over. We couldn't buy it for the $200,000 or any amount. So to this day the Hornet's lien holder is the US Navy.

                    Every year the Navy makes an inspection of the ship and has divers check her hull. No alterations of the ship can occur without the Navy's permission and the National Park System as she is a Historical Landmark. If anything is done in violation then anonymous phone calls go out and a cease and desist order comes down to the Admin. Speaking of dry dock the Hornet is now 2 years past her turn. She will need to be towed over to the general area of the old Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard. Unlike the Intrepid was, the Lexington is and to some extent the Midway she is not sitting in mud but has 5 feet of clear water under her. Still a bit of cash which shouldn't be an issue given that the Feds chipped in $18 million for the Intrepid and we need way less... such favoritism.

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                    • #85
                      Alabama damage

                      Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                      Alabama has access to a main gun ammunition magazine, whereupon you can see the nasty dent in the deck caused by a dropped 16-inch projectile.

                      Tophatter your recital of the "16-inch dent" brings to mind the accident of the Alabama shooting itself in WW II. The Tour guide on the NJ pointed out
                      the damage of the concussion by the 16-inch stern guns.

                      Are these the only incidents of modern BB's damaging themselves?
                      " Lite all burners, make all steam! "

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by connaye View Post
                        Tophatter your recital of the "16-inch dent" brings to mind the accident of the Alabama shooting itself in WW II. The Tour guide on the NJ pointed out
                        the damage of the concussion by the 16-inch stern guns.

                        Are these the only incidents of modern BB's damaging themselves?
                        Don't know if there was any permanent damage, but South Dakota, during the battle with Kirishima, (think that was the one) set one of its planes on fire from firing the aft turret, and then another blast went ahead and blew the plane overboard.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by connaye View Post
                          Tophatter your recital of the "16-inch dent" brings to mind the accident of the Alabama shooting itself in WW II. The Tour guide on the NJ pointed out
                          the damage of the concussion by the 16-inch stern guns.

                          Are these the only incidents of modern BB's damaging themselves?
                          *Not just New Jersey but her sisters as well when their gunnery trials took place after the refit. I believe the Iowa suffered simular damage to her movie shack (and basketball backboard) from concusion effects. Turret 3 left gun @ approx 15 or 30 degrees rotation from centerline.
                          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                            *Not just New Jersey but her sisters as well when their gunnery trials took place after the refit. I believe the Iowa suffered simular damage to her movie shack (and basketball backboard) from concusion effects. Turret 3 left gun @ approx 15 or 30 degrees rotation from centerline.
                            When we brought Missouri down from Bremerton to Long Beach for her modernization, the old movie booth was caved in on the port side. So we designed and built a new one. If I recall, it was 1/2-inch thick instead of the standard 1/4-inch thick bulkhead plating.
                            Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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