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  • #61
    Originally posted by omon View Post
    it is, but it isn,t stupid at all, driver may misscalculated the turn, but those extra wheel are there for a reason. something called weight destribution, and if the truck entering site was loaded, than those wheels must be down
    You get the same weight distribution with a tri-axle, or evern a quad axle low loader.

    No problems exist here with them, and our roads are considerably more stingy than say the 401... Tri axles have at tendency to rip the road apart on a hot summers day. I'd hate to think what a semi with 5 axles did, or the scrubbage factor going - on there!
    Ego Numquam

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    • #62
      I can't speak for anywhere except the US, but the reason we see these mid truck, load wheels, is simply to appease US laws. Many bridges here are rated at weight per axle. A bridge may not allow a tandem axle, say 20 ton truck(10t per axle). Add a couple load axles and now that same truck can go over that bridge (5t ton per axle) or something thereabouts. Its all about weight distribution. The axles should be retractable however, and the trucker should be lifting them when navigating on solid ground.

      Cement trucks that have the retractable rear axle that protrudes to the rear and is steerable is a different story however. They actually take some load from the main axles and make the truck much safer to handle under full loads, redistributing the weight and improving stability, handling and braking.

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      • #63
        Those people still make good cars. Late 2007-2008 products are allegedly equal to anything that came out of Toyota, but it was the consumers who kept buying SUVs that screwed them over. The market wanted SUVs so the lines are geared to make oil hogs. When oil hogs went out of favor, profits fall.

        I think it should also be said that I think automaking industry has an obvious strategic value to a nation that prefers to make its own military hardware.
        All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
        -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Triple C View Post
          Those people still make good cars. Late 2007-2008 products are allegedly equal to anything that came out of Toyota, but it was the consumers who kept buying SUVs that screwed them over.
          Have a look at this car , when its finished you can eat it


          A racing car which is powered and built from natural ingredients including chocolate, carrots and potatoes has been unveiled by researchers at the University of Warwick. University of Warwick racing car is powered and built from natural ingredients … The scientists have built the competitive Formula 3 car - which can still do 125mph around corners - to show how much can be done with environmentally sustainable technologies.

          The "WorldFirst Formula 3 racing car" runs on fuel made from waste chocolate and vegetable oil, has a steering wheel derived from carrots and other root vegetables, a flax fibre and soybean oil foam racing seat and bodywork made from potatoes.

          The researchers based in the university's Warwick Manufacturing Group and the Warwick Innovative Manufacturing Research Centre said the car met all the Formula 3 racing standards except for the engine fuel as competing cars currently cannot use biodiesel.

          The car is the world's first Formula 3 racing car designed and made from sustainable and renewable materials and is now ready to drive, the team said.

          Dr Steve Maggs, of the research team, said embracing the "green is great ethos" meant working throughout the construction chain from the raw materials used to the final disposal of the car.

          Project manager James Meredith said: "It's been very exciting working on the project and important for our team to develop a working example of a truly 'green' motor racing car.

          "The WorldFirst project expels the myth that performance needs to be compromised when developing the sustainable motor vehicles of the future."

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          • #65
            Where is this thread headed? We started with the question whether or not to bail out the US auto makers and now we're into semis and eatable cars, all interesting but not on point. Bail out or no? Can anyone come up with a reason for no bail out that doesn't go along the lines such as "they don't deserve it?"
            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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            • #66
              Certainly, A bail-out doesn't help with bad contracts that are in place, doesn't provide encouragement for the future, and finally doesn't require foresight and drastic change. A bankruptcy would allow GM to seriously restructure, get out of bad contracts and bad locations, renegoitate their penson and lay-off sctructure, and might just show the world that the US big three were serious about having well designed cars again.

              I agree with some of whats going on, saturn and poniac appeal to alot of the same buyers and have similiar line-ups consolidating the two under 1 management might be a pretty good idea, or making saturn an along side option of chevrolet where they have their picinic, and other saturn dealer choices would be good. There is no reason for north american buick, they simply aren't driven and bought here. Holden and ponitiac could/should merge under one management, With GM you see alot of management divisions that have alot of the same cars underthem. Cut out some of that management as well. Japan and most other countries have much higher duties that need paid on imported cars than america does institute equal protectionism and see how that goes.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Maxor View Post
                Certainly, A bail-out doesn't help with bad contracts that are in place, doesn't provide encouragement for the future, and finally doesn't require foresight and drastic change.
                You make some good points. Legacy labor contracts must be brought into line with those of newer US-based auto makers if the old line car companies are to compete successfully. Ordinarily, BK (bankruptcy) would help get that done, but a bailout with strings attached could accomplish the same thing. The problem with BK in GM's case is that it is a tremendously complex company and would, therefore, be difficult for the BK court to acquaint itself with all of its operations, much less control the company. A judge running GM could actually hamper its ability to recover.

                As for model lines, until the economy tanked GM was doing ok with its lines. Saturn had been languishing. I see it's now for sale. Hummer is all but dead. Pontiac will cease to be. Buick is popular with retirees and Cadillac has rebounded well. Chevy, of course, has always done fairly well. But the problem is auto sales in general, which for GM, Chrysler and Ford was a big problem because their overhead, largely driven by topheavy union contracts, was larger than Honda, Toyota, etal. When sales revive--there are signs that it is--GM, etal will have one last chance to get it right.

                To much is at stake in terms of jobs, consumer confidence and stock market sentiment to let GM go BK. If we can get the same result via gov't loans, that would be a better way to go.
                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                • #68
                  not sure 'shek's post is reply to my previous.The question of National security carry not much weight in Big3' survival. Do not think a war like the last 2nd WW could
                  happen in near future. So the contribution of big3 in war production is not so urgent. Any
                  one care to tell what percentage was Big3's contribution in latest military vehicle acquisition
                  program MRAP. As the Trident submarines are still intact, not even DPRK would think about
                  a hot war with Uncle Sam.

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                  • #69
                    If the big 3 did go bankrupt, the production lines would still be there wouldn't they? Who's to say they wouldn't be bought by other car manufacturers? The industrial capability would still be there and In times of a ww2 type shift in industry, they would simply be nationalized temporarily if the company did not agree.

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                    • #70
                      Whoops I voted to bail them out, that is not right! I am of the stance that we should let them fail as it is not only anti-capitalistic, anti-free market, but it simply lacks common sense. Why invest in a failing company that recently just declared bankruptcy a few days ago? I could have seen it a mile away, you don’t invest in stocks where the company is failing, that’s just stupid! You invest in other new and fresh companies that have the capital and the moxie to start up or take over the American car business. That’s the right way for tax payers, and that’s the American way!

                      A lot fear though if GM and Ford goes down under, but too many people are fearful and the government STILL lacks innovation in dealing with these types of situations, sorry Obama, this is not change. We should create jobs and new industries without risking tax payer money in PRIVATE BUISNESS. The government though should still have a plan, and a realistic proposal is if no private business comes forth with a plan to succeed GM and Ford as a new American car company under certain criteria, we should bail GM and Ford out. But the government should find jobs that utilize other private people’s money while still retaining the free market, capitalistic fundamentals. My example is to encourage a company such as Wal-mart who has massive amounts of reserve capital in the billions, and as the government ask them if they are interested in expanding their stores to include automotives as one of their products.

                      Imagine, Wal-mart cars that are a 4 door family sized car for about 10,000 bucks. And it doesn’t have the stigma of American car manufactures because this is a new car company. Many people rely on Wal-Mart for their produce, clothing, and many house hold items, why not move on to your car? And if GM and Ford goes under, thousands upon thousands of people in that sector are out of work, and if you put out a proposal to accept new automotive designers and engineers, you will be flooded with all those who got laid off, and you would select the best of the best from that bunch to engineer the best American car since the Model T. And this is all without the use of Tax Payer money.

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                      • #71
                        If Big 3 are gone, Henry Ford with Model T will never be forgotten. Using Tax money
                        to keep a memory alive is a luxury nobody should do. Where is the old big'E' in Pacific War,
                        fought from Pearl Habor to Tokyo all the way, but still ended up in scrapeyard. Today,
                        whenever I saw a Jumbo, PANAM 's flying boat come into my memory. So if economically
                        Big 3 cannot survive, it is about time to close this chapter in history.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Chunder View Post
                          You get the same weight distribution with a tri-axle, or evern a quad axle low loader.

                          !
                          lmao, go back to shcool.
                          weight is the same , distribution is far from the same
                          "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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                          • #73
                            In another thread I had already mentioned that South Australia had recently lost the Mitsubushi plant and the GM Holden plant had reduced it's workforce back to day shift only.

                            The Dog and Lemon guide is one of the premier motoring magazines in the world who are not beholding to any manufacturer and have a reputation of accurate forecasting.

                            The following is a curent news release from the mag.

                            Chinese takeover of Holden “a real possibility”
                            Speculation that Australia’s iconic Holden brand will be sold to a Chinese company is valid, but this will not save Australian jobs, says the car buyers’ Dog & Lemon Guide.

                            Editor Clive Matthew-Wilson says China isn’t interested in protecting the Australian car assembly industry.

                            “What the Chinese want is the dealers and the technology. The Holden Commodore would make an ideal vehicle to sell from China to America, and the Chinese could probably retail it for around 30% cheaper than a Commodore built in Australia.”

                            “If the Chinese take over Holden, there will probably be a lot of assurances made about keeping the Australian plants going, but these will be largely empty promises. From day one the Chinese will start building a Holden plant in China and after a couple of years they’ll quietly close down their Australian assembly operation, leaving just a small research and development team behind. That’s what happened when Nanjing Automobile Corporation acquired the bankrupt British MG Rover company in 2005. There was a lot of talk about saving British jobs, but the bottom line is that MG Rover cars are now mostly made in China, with a token factory in England that employs a few hundred people.”

                            See also: Australian Car Industry Doomed
                            Source; The DOG & LEMON GUIDE - the world's largest car buyer's guide, written by complete cynics

                            Today I listened to a radio interview with Clive Wilson (editor of D&L mag) and he further claimed that the Chinese, not content with buying up GM Holden, will also go after the British GM manufacturer, Vauxhall.
                            The temptation for GM America to sell for quick cash will be at a massive cost to economies elsewhere.

                            If we loose GMH, two of the biggest non government employers will have gone and South Australia will be in deep sh1t through no fault of our own.

                            I and a hell of a lot others would struggle to feel much charity for the ar$eholes who collectively brought on this financial meltdown, who ever they may be.
                            Last edited by captain; 07 May 09,, 12:41.

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                            • #74
                              The collapse of certain manufacturers of the car industry in the Western world is simply the ever-continuing process of creative destruction. The financial crisis exposed the weak animals of the herd, and just as the herd gets stronger when it's no longer limited by its weakest members, so too will the economy begin to grow again once this process has played out.

                              Creative Destruction: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty
                              "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                              • #75
                                The other story here about the strong animal in the pack, Ford, is one that we shouldn't forget about. Besides the fact that in the US, the Big Three aren't the whole picture (i.e., look at the other car manufacturers with plants scattered across the southeast), what you see is that Ford is clearly being seen as the strong animal that will emerge stronger than before. It will tap into those skills that aren't jettisoned as Chrysler and GM are restructured. While I'm not a huge fan of using the stock market to tell the story, I think that it does have some utility as a very crude proxy at times, and you can see how the anticipation and eventual announcement of Chrysler's bankruptcy buoyed Ford stock to levels unseen during the onset of the financial crisis.

                                F - Ford Motor Company - Google Finance
                                "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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