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Let the automakers go bankrupt?

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  • #31
    This will get me into trouble. The big US automakers are pension funds that happen to make vehicles. Any innovation, development or new investment is subordinate to the giant millstone of the pension funds. Look how long it took Detroit to introduce robots, or include major electronics and safety features on their cars. Remember too how, over the years they suppressed or killed gas-turbine, high-pressure steam and rotary engines, disc brakes, safety belts and a host of other features. Many Americans love European and Japanese cars, but very few US models have ever been exported. The build quality is too low, the technology antiquated and the value-for-money non-existent. The day of the motor industry as a major contributor to wealth in the developed world has gone. Where the UK leads, America will follow--get rid of low-tech jobs and industry. Let Detroit go bust and leave a gap for the high-tech, innovative companies that will fill the gap.

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    • #32
      Although I agree with your post in general I have to say you made some errors.

      In 1955 Ford offered for the first time lap belts as an option
      In 1956, largely at the insistence of executive Robert McNamara, seat belts were offered for consumer automobiles within the "Lifeguard" safety package

      Which makes this very interesting.............
      Saab was the first car manufacturer to introduce seat belts as standard in 1958

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      • #33
        Originally posted by BadKharma View Post
        Although I agree with your post in general I have to say you made some errors.

        In 1955 Ford offered for the first time lap belts as an option
        In 1956, largely at the insistence of executive Robert McNamara, seat belts were offered for consumer automobiles within the "Lifeguard" safety package

        Which makes this very interesting.............
        Sorry Badkharma--you shouldn't rely on Wikipaedia. The Tucker Sedan 'safety car' featured seatbelts in 1949, although in fairness the company folded before sales could get under way thanks in part to Detroit's sabotage. Some pre-war Cords also featured safety belts. Tatra fastback sports cars were also fitted with seatbelts for a short time in 1940 on the orders of Heydrich ( he was an accomplished pilot) after so many Nazi functionaries had killed themselves in the high-speed car. The Nash Rambler offered seatbelts in 1950--pitched as "stopping sleeping passengers from falling out of their seats" The first US patent for automobile seatbelts dates from the 19th century!
        My point--which I think that you appreciate, is that the Detroit Mafia have historically tried to crush innovation rather than lead it. There are too many examples to list here.

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        • #34
          I dont rely upon Wiki but it is good for quick reference. The Tucker was way ahead of it's time I personally liked the headlights moving in a curve. Yes certain innovations do not get adopted immediately for a number of different reasons however I do not think you should hold on to blanket statements.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by furkensturker View Post
            How did these auto makers get into this pickle?
            Subprime housing crises, Recession, just like everyone else.

            Originally posted by furkensturker View Post
            Part of it is the utter contempt the CEO's have for everyone but themselves. When the CEO's of the big three went to Washington, cap in hand for a bail out, each CEO flew in his dedicated corporate jet at an estimated cost of $30,000 each.
            Yeah well, Obama's recent test flight of "Air Force One" cost $328,835, and that's just a test flight. A real trip costs much more, but we aren't complaining about that are we? Obama is a hypocrite when it comes to this, he criticizes private jet use while his own flights cost tens of times more? Complete bullshit.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by AdvanXer View Post
              Subprime housing crises, Recession, just like everyone else.
              That doesn't explain why Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, etc., aren't all coming to Uncle Sam looking for a handout for their US plants. It's because they were producing a product that Americans didn't want as much as other cars, and so they were sick corporations before the recession.
              "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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              • #37
                RIP GM

                Originally posted by Shek View Post
                That doesn't explain why Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, etc., aren't all coming to Uncle Sam looking for a handout for their US plants. It's because they were producing a product that Americans didn't want as much as other cars, and so they were sick corporations before the recession.
                See my earlier comment. US Automakers have been sick for years and like geriatric elephants they are just taking a long time to die.
                This is worth a new thread--the biggest impact on Europeans/Asians/Aussies etc. on their first visit to the US is how backward they are in the application of technology ( note, I say application). The auto industry is but one example. Maybe this comes from the American maxim "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well It's broke now.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by diodetriode View Post
                  This is worth a new thread--the biggest impact on Europeans/Asians/Aussies etc. on their first visit to the US is how backward they are in the application of technology ( note, I say application). The auto industry is but one example. Maybe this comes from the American maxim "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well It's broke now.
                  You're going to have to fill me in on this; I haven't traveled to Asia or Australia, but I've been to Europe and I haven't seen what you're talking about.
                  "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Shek View Post
                    You're going to have to fill me in on this; I haven't traveled to Asia or Australia, but I've been to Europe and I haven't seen what you're talking about.
                    I am also confused on that as well. Many of the people I know online complain about the lack of ISP's in many parts of Australia. Asia I really do not know however.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Shek View Post
                      That doesn't explain why Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, etc., aren't all coming to Uncle Sam looking for a handout for their US plants. It's because they were producing a product that Americans didn't want as much as other cars, and so they were sick corporations before the recession.

                      I don't think that Toyota would ask for assistance from the US government, but if memory serves, they did ask for some type of assistance from the Japanese government.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Shek View Post
                        You're going to have to fill me in on this; I haven't traveled to Asia or Australia, but I've been to Europe and I haven't seen what you're talking about.
                        Since he can't answer anymore. I'll give it a try. Since i never travelled outside Europe the following is only based on what other people told me from their trips or I read in reports.

                        In many ways the US seems to "lack behind" a bit in certain areas. Not Because the technologly or the money dont exist..but simply...will I don't know why.

                        Examples:

                        Your plumping-system seems often quite outdated (and required the us of water towers), the roads seem often to be in a horrible state (though that might just be from the German perspective). The Energy-system appears to be in need of a complete overhaul and other things, usually refering to infrastructure issues.

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                        • #42
                          In 1979 the government, a democratic administration I might add, stepped in to bailout Chrysler, they went on to make tons of minivans, K cars and such, which were crap, but, it was good for the economy, provided jobs, which helped Reagan get re-elected in '84.

                          Take some of the money from the banks and give it to the auto sector. I don't want to know a country where the Bandit can't ride in an American car. Obama will be the president that oversaw the death of the Hemi, shame on you!



                          V8 Bandit Boid

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by tlake View Post
                            Obama will be the president that oversaw the death of the Hemi, shame on you!
                            He's gonna be the pres that oversaw the death of a lot more than just the hemi......things like freedom, liberty.............

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
                              Since he can't answer anymore. I'll give it a try. Since i never travelled outside Europe the following is only based on what other people told me from their trips or I read in reports.

                              In many ways the US seems to "lack behind" a bit in certain areas. Not Because the technologly or the money dont exist..but simply...will I don't know why.

                              Examples:

                              Your plumping-system seems often quite outdated (and required the us of water towers), the roads seem often to be in a horrible state (though that might just be from the German perspective). The Energy-system appears to be in need of a complete overhaul and other things, usually refering to infrastructure issues.
                              1. Water towers are for civil emergencies, not for everyday use.
                              2. Roads are going to depend upon where you visit and what time of year. If you come in late spring in the northern states, then you're going to have a bunch of ripped up centerlines and potholes from the snow plows over the winter. This is fixed by the summer.
                              3. Except for during rare severe thunderstorm events, power is never an issue.

                              There's something to the roads depending on the locale in direct comparison to the German autobahn, but beyond that, there's not much of a difference based on my four years of Europe.
                              "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by tlake View Post
                                In 1979 the government, a democratic administration I might add, stepped in to bailout Chrysler, they went on to make tons of minivans, K cars and such, which were crap, but, it was good for the economy, provided jobs, which helped Reagan get re-elected in '84.

                                Take some of the money from the banks and give it to the auto sector. I don't want to know a country where the Bandit can't ride in an American car. Obama will be the president that oversaw the death of the Hemi, shame on you!



                                V8 Bandit Boid
                                Bankruptcy doesn't mean that Chrystler necessarily goes bye-bye, just that only the core strength of the company will remain. Besides, the Toyota Tundra is more American than most "American" cars.

                                Lastly, I don't think there's much demand for Burt Reynolds movies anymore ;)
                                "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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