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Greatest warrior of all time?

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  • #46
    Well if you agree that they were both Mythology and Legend, then y were you opposing the deeds that Homer described as Achilles', saying that they were "exaggerated", well, arent Mythology and Legend most of the times exaggerated???????????????????
    Yes I don't see your point.

    I was differentiating them because Achilles was a mythical hero and the person I mentioned was based on official Roman records.

    Oh, and im sorry about the whole sentence structure thing, i didnt realize that i couldnt talk like a normal person after-hours.
    Wow that says something about our society.

    Oh and please stop pretending to be a professor.
    Last edited by Praxus; 13 Mar 05,, 03:36.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Praxus
      Yes I don't see your point.

      I was differentiating them because Achilles was a mythical hero and the person I mentioned was based on official Roman records.

      Official records, which have two different, and conflicting sides about the same story. They migth be offcial, but if they r not telling the same events, they dont count for much more than Homer's Illiad where he talks about Achilles
      Remember, the enemy gate is down- Andrew ¨Ender¨ Wiggin

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jonathan Locke
        Official records, which have two different, and conflicting sides about the same story. They migth be offcial, but if they r not telling the same events, they dont count for much more than Homer's Illiad where he talks about Achilles
        Hence the fact it's a historical legend and not historical fact.

        It's not to hard to connect the dots.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Praxus
          Hence the fact it's a historical legend and not historical fact.

          It's not to hard to connect the dots.

          Okay, then, those official records of which you spoke are basically stories, which might have some truth to them. (Much like the Illiad dont you think............I guess that Achilles' credibility and exaggeration are not as far away from Horatius as you put them to be)



          Must you end every post with a stupid remark.
          Remember, the enemy gate is down- Andrew ¨Ender¨ Wiggin

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          • #50
            Does anyone even argue the Iliad/Odyssey were real events? Not that the characters were any less heroic real or not.
            No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
            I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
            even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
            He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Confed999
              Does anyone even argue the Iliad/Odyssey were real events? Not that the characters were any less heroic real or not.
              i think that Snipe states that the Iliad's stories about Achilles' were real in one of his frist posts in this thread, but im not sure, go check it out.
              Remember, the enemy gate is down- Andrew ¨Ender¨ Wiggin

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Jonathan Locke
                Okay, then, those official records of which you spoke are basically stories, which might have some truth to them. (Much like the Illiad dont you think............I guess that Achilles' credibility and exaggeration are not as far away from Horatius as you put them to be)



                Must you end every post with a stupid remark.
                Horatius is reported by numerous reliable historians. Achilles is mentioned an epic poem intended as a myth.

                That is the difference.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Praxus
                  Horatius is reported by numerous reliable historians. Achilles is mentioned an epic poem intended as a myth.

                  That is the difference.

                  Do you mean historians of that time, or of this time?
                  Remember, the enemy gate is down- Andrew ¨Ender¨ Wiggin

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jonathan Locke
                    Do you mean historians of that time, or of this time?
                    I'm refering to Livy.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Praxus
                      I'm refering to Livy.

                      Yes well, you said historians and if im not mistaking Livy is only one person
                      Remember, the enemy gate is down- Andrew ¨Ender¨ Wiggin

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                      • #56
                        "Nope, can't be a hero and be unlucky"

                        Tell that to Oddyssius.

                        And i wouldn't exactly call Achilles lucky either, as afterall, in the end, he was killed by a most unlucky arrow strike.

                        Homer was most certainly a historian as well as a poet, as it was the role of the Greek poets to record history(they had no historians), but there are some others that recorded the exploits of Achilles, the Ancient Greeks, and the Trojans.

                        Ovid, in the writings of metamorphases,
                        Statius, a poet of Rome, Hesiod the great Greek poet, Sophocles of Athens, and of course, Homer himself.

                        There are others as well, but i'd have to look those up.

                        So as i said, it is highly likely that Achilles was a real man. Certainly the trojan war was real, and certainly the Greeks have always remembered the names of their Heroes.

                        Why should this be any different than Thermopalye?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by M21Sniper
                          Tell that to Oddyssius.

                          And i wouldn't exactly call Achilles lucky either, as afterall, in the end, he was killed by a most unlucky arrow strike.
                          They had alot of luck until then. One cannot be lucky all the time. I have to figure luck in, as I do not believe in the magical explanation.
                          Originally posted by M21Sniper
                          So as i said, it is highly likely that Achilles was a real man
                          Real or fiction, they are no less heroic.
                          No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                          I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                          even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                          He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

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                          • #58
                            Ovid, in the writings of metamorphases,
                            Statius, a poet of Rome, Hesiod the great Greek poet, Sophocles of Athens, and of course, Homer himself.
                            None of which are historians:)

                            So as i said, it is highly likely that Achilles was a real man. Certainly the trojan war was real, and certainly the Greeks have always remembered the names of their Heroes.

                            Why should this be any different than Thermopalye?
                            There are real sources that go back to Thermopalyae (5th Century BC). By the way I never objected to your claim that Achilles probably exsisted;)

                            Yes well, you said historians and if im not mistaking Livy is only one person
                            Livy got it from other Historians before him.
                            Last edited by Praxus; 13 Mar 05,, 05:06.

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                            • #59
                              The ancient Greek poet philosophers were the ONLY historians of their day silly boy.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by M21Sniper
                                The ancient Greek poet philosophers were the ONLY historians of their day silly boy.
                                Herodotus was alive during the same time as Sophocles.

                                Herodotus and Polybiys were both dead for 400 and 200 years respectivly by the time Statius comes along. Statius was also a live during the same time as Livy(roughly).

                                You got me on Hesoid and Homer though;)
                                Last edited by Praxus; 13 Mar 05,, 05:15.

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