Will this help America?

[Blue]

I am really disgusted with this stimulus package. More waste on top of waste IMO. How much more of this are we going take.......can we take?

The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodies

Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:00 PM

By: David A. Patten Article Font Size




Having trouble putting down that cigarette? The stimulus bill has $75 million for programs to help people quit smoking. Only 42 percent of Americans now think the bill is a good idea, according to Rasmussen Reports, which had found 45 percent approval last week. (AP Photo)

The $1.17 trillion stimulus bill passed by House Democrats on Wednesday bears little resemblance to the bill originally proposed by President Obama, with less than 5 percent of the funds now going to repair America’s deteriorating infrastructure.

GOP critics point out the bill is loaded with tens of billions for items ranging from Amtrak subsidies to sexually transmitted diseases to the National Endowment for the Arts -- much of which won’t actually flow into the economy until long after economists expect the current economic crisis to subside.

In late November, Obama promised: “It will be a two-year, nationwide effort to jumpstart job creation in America, and lay the foundation for a strong and growing economy. We’ll put people back to work rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges,” modernizing schools and stimulating development of alternative forms of energy.

Even some Democrats are now objecting that the measure contains too few highway and mass transit projects. Moreover Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Economy.com, says most of the infrastructure spending in the plan won’t occur until 2010 or later.

Provisions of the bill that many legislators are questioning:


$1 billion for Amtrak, which hasn’t earned a profit in four decades.


$2 billion to help subsidize child care.


$400 million for research into global warming.


$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.


$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion.


$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments.


$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.


$21 million to re-sod the National Mall, which suffered heavy use during the Inauguration.


$2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service’s entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.


$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.


$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. $4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN – meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., charges the money could appear to be a “payoff” for the partisan political activities community groups in the last election cycle.


$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department.


$32 billion for a “smart electricity grid to minimize waste.


$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states.


$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs.


$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes.


$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment.


$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition.


$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program.

Republican leaders say the stimulus package will add 32 new government programs at a cost of $136 billion. They object that many of the programs, once established, are likely to continue indefinitely.

Most media outlets are reporting the cost of the package at $819 billion. As Newsmax revealed yesterday, however, the Congressional Budget Office calculates that the interest on the debt generated by the bill’s spending will cost another $347.1 billion, making the total cost approximately $1.17 trillion.

Of course, the measure contains hundreds of billions in tax cuts and infrastructure projects that conservatives will find palatable. But as House Minority whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., told the media Wednesday, “This was not a stimulus bill. It was a spending bill.”
















© 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

[Blue]

By all means we should help the illegals!!!

WASHINGTON (AP) - The $800 billion-plus economic stimulus measure making its way through Congress could steer government checks to illegal immigrants, a top Republican congressional official asserted Thursday.
The legislation, which would send tax credits of $500 per worker and $1,000 per couple, expressly disqualifies nonresident aliens, but it would allow people who don't have Social Security numbers to be eligible for the checks.

Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic recovery bill and one making its way through the Senate would allow anyone with such a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number, to qualify for the tax credits.

A revolt among GOP conservatives to similar provisions of a 2008 economic stimulus bill, which sent rebate checks to most wage earners, forced Democratic congressional leaders to add stricter eligibility requirements. That legislation, enacted in February 2008, required that people have valid Social Security numbers in order to get checks.

The GOP official voiced concerns about the latest economic aid measure on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss it publicly.

Republicans have already blasted the package for including what they argue is wasteful spending and omitting tax cuts for wealthier people and businesses they say are needed to jump-start the anemic economy.

Not a single Republican voted for an $819 billion version of the plan when it passed the House on Wednesday.

GOP senators arranged a midday news conference to voice their concerns.

[Roosveltrepub]

Yeah I do and most of that waste you listed isn't waste. What illegal immigrant is going to file taxes? Think of all the downside. Plus most work under the table or under a false social security number. That kind of hyperbole might go over with the mob but it's plain out cynical that "top congressional official" knows he is full of crap hence his failure to even offer criticism without anonymity. The rich get another year of the temporary Bush tax cuts to the rich. Lets not forget the red ink started with a 1.35 trillion dollar tax relief plan focused on the rich

I think opposition to the plan is going to make it 1934 all over again next year

[Blue]

So would you call it (most accurately) a stimulus or spending bill?

[Roosveltrepub]

Stimulus for the most part. It will have more bang for the buck than the Bush "stimulus" in 2002 and when it's run it's course we will have something other than just debt from it.

[Shek]

Stimulus for the most part. It will have more bang for the buck than the Bush "stimulus" in 2002 and when it's run it's course we will have something other than just debt from it.

Such as? What's the flash to bang? An earlier stimulus proposal had only 8% of the stimulus actually hitting the economy this year. How about the reduction of exports when other countries retaliate against the protectionism embedded in the various stimulus proposals?

[Blue]

I find it most interesting how most of the spending has been timed to coincide with midterm elections and the next pres election.

[Roosveltrepub]

My gut says the buy American clause will die in conference. You're dead right about that part. Did our tariffs on steel under Bush cause a big reduction in exports?

Bang for the buck (wonkish)
Mark Thoma says he was thinking about thinking about this; I was actually thinking about it. Anyway, it’s true: the cost of an effective fiscal stimulus, in terms of adding to the government’s debt, can (and should) be much less than the headline cost.

Consider an increase in government spending; assume that the interest rate is fixed (a good assumption right now, because interest rates are up against the zero lower bound). Then textbook analysis says that if the stimulus is dG, the increase in GDP is 1/(1 - c(1-t)) where c is the marginal propensity to consume out of income and t is the marginal tax rate. Suppose c is 0.5 and t is 1/3; then the multiplier is 1.5, which is more or less the conventional wisdom right now.

But if $100 billion in spending raises GDP by $150 billion, and the marginal tax rate is 1/3, $50 billion of the spending comes back in additional revenue. So bang for the buck — increase in GDP per dollar of added debt — is 3, not 1.5. Since the main concern about stimulus is that it will add to government debt, it’s this bang for the buck measure, rather than the multiplier, that’s relevant. And 3 sounds a lot better than 1.5.

Take this a bit further: $150 billion is about 1 percent of GDP, which Romer and Bernstein say means a million jobs; so this says $50,000 per job, which is a much better number than the critics have been throwing around (plus many more workers with full-time rather than part-time jobs).

Bang for the buck also heightens the contrast between effective and ineffective stimulus policies. Stay with c = 0.5, t = 1/3, and look at the effects of a tax cut; the multiplier is 0.75, half that for public investment, but bang for the buck is 1, only 1/3 that for investment.

So thinking about how stimulus comes back via revenues is important.

Considering all the prognosticators saying the downturn will be extended is this so bad?

The Congressional Budget Office said Monday that a Democratic-backed stimulus bill will have a “noticeable impact” on growth and unemployment in the next few years but could prove less than the quick jolt that President Obama is seeking.

With the House slated to vote on the $825 billion package Wednesday, Speaker Nancy Pelosi welcomed the CBO’s findings as confirmation that the plan should be approved. But the 23-page report will surely fuel Republican demands for some fine tuning in the Senate, either by scaling scale back the spending or expanding investment tax cuts.

By CBO’s count, only two-thirds or about $525.7 billion of the package will make itself felt in the economy over the first 18-19 months, considerably less than the 75% rate promised by the Obama administration. Moreover, CBO suggests that the sudden flood of new appropriations could prove counter-productive, overwhelming agencies, state and local governments and leading to more delays.

“Frequently in the past, in all types of federal programs, a noticeable lag has occurred between sharp increases in budget authority and the resulting increases in outlays,” CBO says. “Based on such experiences, CBO expects that federal agencies, along with states and other recipients of that funding, would find it difficult to properly manage and oversee a rapid expansion of existing programs so as to expend the added funds as quickly as they expend the resources provided for their ongoing programs.”

For example, CBO challenges the ability of agencies to quickly use new broadband funds, a top priority for Obama. And the analysis cites a proposed $18.5 billion appropriation in the House bill for energy efficiency and renewable energy programs—nearly 10 times the current funding of $1.9 billion.

“We therefore expect that the proportion of spending that would occur in the first few years would be lower than that for existing programs,” CBO says, “Reflecting the time to would take the (Department of Energy) to establish new programs and ramp up its spending from current levels.”

In the case of highway spending, CBO said it had consulted with transportation officials in nearly half the states and found that many were anxious for the funds and hoped to move quickly. But CBO said the states themselves were concerned about how fast local governments could use the money, and on balance, CBO concluded that the transportation outlays would be spread over several years.

Yet for all CBO’s criticism, its bottom line numbers don’t show a huge “tail” to the stimulus spending either. This is always a great fear of such bills: that spending commitments drag on and feed inflation after the economy has recovered.

By October 2011, about two and half-years from now, CBO estimates that almost $700 billion or 85% of the spending and tax cuts will have been pumped into the economy. And that remaining portion will be heavy with infrastructure or projects like broadband that are considered long term investments

Working at Sikorsky Aircraft I can assure you our European allies already practice protectionism. See our allies fleets of Helicopters. My job depends on exports I only wish we had the opportunity to bid on the Italian President's helicopter... and as a share holder wish we could over-bill it 200%

Me personally, my job is secure probably to retirement and at the least the next several years. The bill is going to cost me down the road I just believe it's better for the country.

[Roosveltrepub]

I find it most interesting how most of the spending has been timed to coincide with midterm elections and the next pres election.

Nope read the article i posted 2/3 will be spent w/in 18 months

[Blue]

Nope read the article i posted 2/3 will be spent w/in 18 months

Well we could sit here and say "is so" and "is not" all day, but those are projections by the CBO.

Do you really think the Dems will not use this as a political tool? C'mon RR, they all do it. ALL of them. To bet me that it will unfold just like that article states is a losing one.

[Roosveltrepub]

Well we could sit here and say "is so" and "is not" all day, but those are projections by the CBO.

Do you really think the Dems will not use this as a political tool? C'mon RR, they all do it. ALL of them. To bet me that it will unfold just like that article states is a losing one.

Of course they will. I dont believe they will be near as brutal or wasteful and crony driven about it as the Delay congress was but, some politics always comes into it. The republicans are playing hardball and they really dont have the numbers for it. I think they are impotent to stop it and may end up loosing some of the things added to attract them to the bill.

[Shek]

Well we could sit here and say "is so" and "is not" all day, but those are projections by the CBO.

Do you really think the Dems will not use this as a political tool? C'mon RR, they all do it. ALL of them. To bet me that it will unfold just like that article states is a losing one.

7th SF,
I don't disagree with you that the stimulus will be used in part to reward constituents - it will be interesting to see how many of the compromises involve adding pork for GOP approval. I'd also like to point out that it was the party of free trade that imposed the steel import duties right around the midterm elections of 2002 and kept them in place until just around the 2004 elections. I'm sure it had nothing to do with PA and OH being swing states . . .

[Blue]

7th SF,
I don't disagree with you that the stimulus will be used in part to reward constituents - it will be interesting to see how many of the compromises involve adding pork for GOP approval.

Business as usual Sir. I am sure the GOP would love to have some of that pork action, which is EXACTLY why I think they are so pissed. The Dems don't need them to pass it, so the Reps aren't getting a piece of the pie. wah wah! You bet thier ticked. And they will preach how irresponsible the spending is, like they haven't anything like that on thier watch. The BS is going to get deep. Our congress is about as whiny and petty as a preschool class. Naw, probably worse. Like Obama said the other day, "We won, so we get to write the bill". Says it all right there IMO.

I'd also like to point out that it was the party of free trade that imposed the steel import duties right around the midterm elections of 2002 and kept them in place until just around the 2004 elections. I'm sure it had nothing to do with PA and OH being swing states . . .

No argument here. Our leaders are the best of the best in manipulation and corruption. I just wish they would quit masquerading as public servants and quit pretending to represent the wishes and interest of the people.

[Ryan Bailey]

The Sniper is shooting straight here.

As a good capitalist, I hate waste.

[Blue]

An interesting email I recieved awhile back. If it actually happened is inmaterial. The point is well made.

No Free lunch

There was a professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class.

One day while the class was in a lab and the Prof noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.

The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange question.
He asked,'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?'

The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line.
The young man said this was no joke.
'You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The
pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in The last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom.
They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how To forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.

The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening to America.
The government keeps pushing us towards these progressive things called Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare payments, medicine and drug payments, and possibly even mortgage payments to those that overextended themselves, etc.

While we are continually losing our freedom to work and earn for ourselves - just a little at a time.
One should always remember 'There is no such thing as a free Lunch!' We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for ourselves, there is no other right or guarantee.