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**Kernow** · 23 Jan 09,, 05:11

I must say there are an awful lot of Heavy Cavalry in the Iron Dukes ORBAT. Not so much in the Confederate ORBAT. Who will win? The Duke of Boots was a great user of the 'Reverse Slope Defence and using Line Formation.

It depends on the tactics of the Commanders; how they position there troops, frontal or flank attack, using Artillery to cover the advance of the Cavalry. I believe it would be a closely fought Battle.

**Kernow** · 23 Jan 09,, 05:24

Robert E. Lee, defeated at the battle of 'Cheat Mountain and was blamed for Confederate setbacks. Known as Granny Lee by his troops. "Gettysburg was the price the South paid for having Robert E. Lee as Commander". (Shelby Foote). This his own guys talking about him in this way. Not good PR.

**astralis** · 23 Jan 09,, 05:44

chaobam,

"granny" lee as a name was dropped after 1862.

while i don't think he was the consummate tactician/strategist many of his proponents believe him to be (he did not do that well in the peninsula campaign, nor in antietam, or for that matter gettysburg), his showing in such battles as Chancellorsville and second manassas was quite impressive.

**TopHatter** · 23 Jan 09,, 06:10

One of his greatest abilities

Lee was able to do something that his Federal counterparts were usually unable or unwilling to do, even with a cattle prod jammed up their rear ends:

Lee could and would MOVE.

**HoratioNelson** · 23 Jan 09,, 06:20

At the same time, Wellesley is usually seen as a solely defensive commander, and he could nail himself to good ground very efficiently, but battles like Assaye, Salamanca and Vitoria prove that he was both bold enough and brilliant enough to conduct excellent offensive operations with precise timing. His quick exploitation of the over-extended French flank at Salamanca with a succession of strokes with infantry columns in oblique order certainly show his consummate ability to lead men in the attack as well as the defense.

We also have to take the professionalism of the two forces into account here. If i'm not mistaken, the regiments of the Civil War were, by and large, volunteer forces. The European observers of the time called it a war of the amateurs. Whereas Wellington's force is full-time professional soldiers of Britain and Portugal. No doubt the British redcoat is the more famous soldier of those two, but the Portugese were not to be underestimated either, they served Wellington quite well in the Peninsular War.

**Officer of Engineers** · 23 Jan 09,, 06:31

Lee. He understood the need to for strong reccee.

**astralis** · 23 Jan 09,, 15:41

horatio,

We also have to take the professionalism of the two forces into account here. If i'm not mistaken, the regiments of the Civil War were, by and large, volunteer forces. The European observers of the time called it a war of the amateurs.

that was no longer true by late 1862 and 1863. by 1864 the average combat experience of both union and confederate armies were absolutely unmatched in the world.

**Albany Rifles** · 23 Jan 09,, 17:13

To heck with Lee....you want to compare Old Nosey with Sam Grant.

Lee would maneuver on a tactical level...Grant maneuvered on an operational level.

I'd take Grant in command of the Army of the Tennessee (Sherman) and the Army of the Cumberland (Thomas) circa November 1863 at Chattanooga over just about anyone.....except maybe Grant with the Army of the Potomac (Meade) and Army of the James (Ord) circa March 1865

**zraver** · 23 Jan 09,, 20:10

Originally posted by Chaobam Armour View Post

I must say there are an awful lot of Heavy Cavalry in the Iron Dukes ORBAT. Not so much in the Confederate ORBAT.

If I am not mistaken, didn't the British still have lancers? A lot of the Southern Horsemen used shotguns for the close quarters work. IIRC the South also eschewed typical heavy cavalry tactics. Instead they would feint a charge to get the infantry to bunch upand fix bayonets and then swing parallell to the line and deliver the shotgun fire.

I'd give marksmanship and equestrian skills to the the Southerners, as well as tactical skill. Southern Armies might have started out volunteer, but they had been riding and shooting since childhood and the basics of thier tactics was formed in Missouri and Kansas well before the war.

I notice that the OP has Lee attacking, and Wellington defending. I think Lee was his least able on the attack.

One important question- does Lee have Jackson? His foot "cavalry" will be important.

**gunnut** · 23 Jan 09,, 21:24

I think a celebrity death match is in order.

**Maxor** · 23 Jan 09,, 22:26

A few questions how are both sides for supplies? Is the goal just to raze the city or to capture and hold it? Whats the distance between the southern ridge and the town?

The percussion caps are really just going to increase rate of fire, not a whole lot of extra range or accuracy. The numbers aren't enough of an advantage for lee to attack against an entrenched defender with the tactics the weapons force so in this on just a face of it without knowing the rest I would give to wellington.

**Johnny W** · 23 Jan 09,, 22:58

Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

To heck with Lee....you want to compare Old Nosey with Sam Grant.

Lee would maneuver on a tactical level...Grant maneuvered on an operational level.

Thats more because of the fractured command structure of the Confederates and to much involvement by Davis. Lincoln gave Grant more leeway. The superior logistical capability of the North didn't hurt either. Lee had to fight with what he had, and made the best of it.

**Johnny W** · 23 Jan 09,, 23:00

Does Lee get Stonewall Jackson back as a subordinate commander? Lee, Jackson and Longstreet made quite a team.

**Johnny W** · 23 Jan 09,, 23:03

Originally posted by Chaobam Armour View Post

Robert E. Lee, defeated at the battle of 'Cheat Mountain and was blamed for Confederate setbacks. Known as Granny Lee by his troops. "Gettysburg was the price the South paid for having Robert E. Lee as Commander". (Shelby Foote). This his own guys talking about him in this way. Not good PR.

I think that Shelby was referring to Lee's aggressive tendencies more than anything, and that perhaps the South might have been better served by a defensive minded commander given the disparity in numbers and logistics.

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Robert E. Lee vs the Duke of Wellington

Robert E. Lee vs the Duke of Wellington

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