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  • Private Military Companies

    Quote of Wiki
    A private military company (PMC) provides specialized expertise or services of a military nature, sometimes called or classified as mercenary ("soldiers for hire"). Such companies are equally known as Private Military Contractors, Private Security Contractors (PSCs), Private Military Corporations, Private Military Firms, Military Service Providers, and generally as the Private Military Industry.
    What roles do you think PMC's will take in the future?
    Do you think they could replace the armies of countries?

  • #2
    The need for PSCs will continue and grow. The world isn't getting any safer.

    You will never see PSCs replacing national armies...way too expensive. Why hire contractors when you can fill up your ranks with conscripts and young volunteers who can be trained and fielded for a fraction of the cost. (Although with demand we've begun to see less experienced, younger operators coming into the business for less money. The more mature former SOF/infantry guys with combat leadership histories and impeccable reps will continue to get top dollar.)
    Last edited by Red Seven; 21 Jan 09,, 15:23.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dfg209 View Post
      Quote of Wiki


      What roles do you think PMC's will take in the future?
      Do you think they could replace the armies of countries?


      There is a 'minefield'(no pun intended) of red-tape to cut before it ever gets off the ground, if ever

      The 1949 Third Geneva Convention (GCIII) does not recognize the difference between defense contractors and PMCs; it defines a category called supply contractors. If the supply contractor has been issued with a valid identity card from the armed forces which they accompany, they are entitled to be treated as prisoners of war upon capture (GCIII Article 4.1.4). If, however, the contractor engages in combat, he/she can be classified as a mercenary by the captors under the 1977 Protocol I Additional to the Geneva Conventions (Protocol I) Article 47.c, unless falling under an exemption to this clause in Article 47. If captured contractors are found to be mercenaries, they are unlawful combatants and lose the right to prisoner of war status. Protocol I was not ratified by the United States because, among other issues, it does not require "Freedom Fighters" to obey the convention in order to be granted its protections.

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      • #4
        Contractor personnel fit into many areas. We are heavily into the logistics and support realms. When I was scheduled to join the 3 ID in 2003 for OIF, I was issued all kinds of gear, but my DCUs had my company name instead of US Army and I was was told no way would I get a weapon for the very reason Dave just gave.

        So how do/can they operate?

        Companies like Blackwater, MPRI, etc., can provide training and advisory support but not direct combat operations. And you ask then how does Blackwater operate they way the have?

        2 ways:

        1. They were contracted by DOD...and notice under the new SOFA they are no longer exempt from Iraqi law....and several are under indictment right now.

        2. Contract as security to SEC STATE, USAID or an NGO. In that case they are not mercenaries but are treated as private security professionals.
        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
          they are no longer exempt from Iraqi law....and several are under indictment right now.

          Yep, and that's why DOS dropped BW. I guess TC and DynCorp will take up the slack.

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          • #6
            Wiki also states that once a PMC enters actual conflict, they are Mercenaries.
            Do you think PMC's have a place in actual conflicts?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by dfg209 View Post
              Wiki also states that once a PMC enters actual conflict, they are Mercenaries.
              Do you think PMC's have a place in actual conflicts?
              In some situations yes, If a government has a inadequate force to maintain peace, and the UN is unwilling or just to slow to react then i see no reason why it should not be allowed for a legitimate majority supported government to hire who they wish.

              Also blue helmets havent always proved a strong enough deterrent.
              Last edited by Doomarias; 22 Jan 09,, 06:06.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Doomarias View Post
                Also blue helmets havent always proved a strong enough deterrent.
                Like in Angola, when the "mercenary" company Executive outcomes were forced out after defeating rebels, and the UN moved in. The rebels came back and war returned shortly.

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                • #9
                  Like in Angola, when the "mercenary" company Executive outcomes were forced out after defeating rebels, and the UN moved in. The rebels came back and war returned shortly.
                  The Angolans did the heavy lifting in crushing UNITA.
                  To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by troung View Post
                    The Angolans did the heavy lifting in crushing UNITA.
                    What did the company do in Angola?
                    Because I got the impression that the company did most of the work

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                    • #11
                      This is a really interesting topic that I know little of.

                      I'm just wondering out loud, what about those companies that provide security design/consultancy services (i.e. help the military in planning for 'contingencies', integrate technology and so on) on behalf of states, while not actually providing war fighters/security guards?

                      Here's why I'm confused. I know that Indonesia did use some foreigners to advise them on at least 1 insurgency matter. The problem is these advisors to the Indonesians were no boots on the ground people. On the other hand, what about those security companies (using technology and the relevant support stuff to provide security). It's kind of hard for me to draw the line, as it were, for what constitutes a Private Military Company or a Private Security Contractor.

                      How do we classify them? Would you call those Private Military Companies/Private Security Contractors? Anyone care to help me with my confusion?
                      Last edited by sunnyamy; 23 Jan 09,, 05:43.

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                      • #12
                        What did the company do in Angola?
                        Trained two brigades and worked with a few units of the Air Force. One could argue that UNITA ended up messing up on its own in no small part, but the MPLA deserves the credit for grinding out that win.

                        Because I got the impression that the company did most of the work
                        Being able to speak in English and having the same skin color as the journalists helps - with the Tarzan effect - as does being shameless self promoters.

                        Here's why I'm confused. I know that Indonesia did use some foreigners to advise them on at least 1 insurgency matter. The problem is these advisors to the Indonesians were no boots on the ground people.
                        Trained some dog teams.
                        Last edited by troung; 23 Jan 09,, 07:37.
                        To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sunnyamy
                          It's kind of hard for me to draw the line, as it were, for what constitutes a Private Military Company or a Private Security Contractor.
                          As far as Wiki's concerned they're the same thing, or at least equal.

                          Originally posted by troung View Post
                          Being able to speak in English and having the same skin color as the journalists helps - with the Tarzan effect - as does being shameless self promoters.
                          Troung, I don't mean to be a pain, but you'll have to spell it out.
                          Last edited by dfg209; 23 Jan 09,, 07:50.

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                          • #14
                            There are a lot of different names for the same thing. Mercenaries participate, sometimes plan and often lead troops in offensive operations and raids. PSC's generally provide security, logistics, training and threat assessment. They do support work, facilities protection, convoy escort, CP (close protection) for diplomatic personnel, etc. PSC's do not get involved in offensive operations. They are purely defensive. As such they have the authority to defend themselves and the facililities they are hired to protect...but they have to be extremely careful when doing so. There are also LSCs and SSRs...Logistics and Support companies and Security Sector Reform companies. LSCs do tech support, mine clearing, threat assessment, waste management, whatever...anything that does not involve protection but that needs to be done that the military doesn't want to do.
                            Last edited by Red Seven; 24 Jan 09,, 00:18.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dfg209 View Post
                              What did the company do in Angola?
                              Because I got the impression that the company did most of the work
                              There was also a component provided by some of the private security employed by large multinationals. Some were a lot more heavily armed and equipped than is typical for security guards.

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