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  • #46
    Originally posted by usgn View Post
    Got to agreed that I actually let my guard down while driving into the basement carpark since there were rent-a-cops stationed at the entrance plus the fatigue of long driving.:( Didn't really look at the surrounding before stepping out of my car) all I was thinking was to have a pint of draught beer and a hot shower:)).
    By the way, I was basically unarmed as Botswana have pretty strict arms control. And in Joburg according to the local, every 3 mins there is a carjack somewhere and every 5 mins a cop get shot at

    Frankly speaking, even if I am armed, don't think I would react unnecessary, unless my family is with me. Basically depends on individual's judgement in that particular situation. Having 2 xAK pointing at your face wasn't that good a feeling...
    I'm sure it was harrowing situation, I'm very glad you made it through. Has that incident changed any notions that you might have had before about travel, weapons carry, etc?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
      Well, when I say often, I don't mean to over analyze to the point of tedious or redundant. Like reloading drills, weapon presentation, instinctive shooting. That sort of thing.
      Agree, train hard on the fundamentals.

      We like to tell students that we are going to teach them just a handful of skills, and then we are going to spend hours drilling them on those skills until they want to vomit.

      Comment


      • #48
        I like the "going over scenarios in your brain" comment. If you have an idea of the surroundings due to frequent travel to the area, like the money drops I do at the bank..... I have "Gamed" different scenarios so that I would at least have a working idea of the tactics I would use if attacked from different areas of approach. Bottom line, I try to do the drops during the daylight so as to lessen the chances of an armed assault.

        The practice until impending vomitaceous behavior is still the best you can do. No matter how sound your tactics, if you can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, you're still in a world of hurt.

        Regardless of what your weapon of choice is, and I may carry any of three on my permit (4" XD-40 with TLR-1, 92FS Beretta 9MM, 84FS Beretta .380, all loaded with Corbon DXP). Sometimes fighting is not an option, unless escalation on the side of the aggressor makes it necessary. Sometimes, even shooting someone legally can cost you a fortune in legal fees...

        That said, unless you are on a first name basis with "ALL" members of your local constabulary, you would be well advised to keep your mouth shut until you talk to a lawyer. When under a stressful situation, you may not have all your facts impeccably straight due to an adrenaline rush still in progress. You need time to collect yourself, get your facts 100% straight, and then tell the authorities what happened. Because they will interview you more than once, at least where I live, and if you change one detail of that interview, you will go to jail until a trial takes place......
        Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
        (Been There)

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        • #49
          Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
          So here is another question for those who carry. You have a responsibility to retain your weapon. How far do you go to do that? What would you do if suddenly met with potentialy overwhelming force?

          And one more question. Who here that does carry have recieved training in potential threat avoidance and identification, ie. don't go strutting through the 'hood at 2am in a tux swingin a gold watch chain, etc.? Who here that has actually practices it?
          Good questions.

          I can't answer hypotheticals, but I would hope that I would be able to recognize when someone "has the drop on me" and live to fight another day.

          As far as actually relinquishing my weapon, I dunno. Depends on whether I'm crapping myself or actually capable of thought in that kind of situation (untested so far), I suspect.

          As far as additional training, I haven't done it, although I intend to. I've met enough sketchy people and situations to generally know how to avoid trouble areas and trouble people. Most importantly, I try to keep my head up and scan my surroundings. From what I've learned so far that's a huge deterrent right there.

          -dale

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Red Seven View Post
            Absolutely not. In all my life in the US, living in many places, traveling all over, I have never once seen anyone outside the gun range pull a firearm, shoot a firearm or threaten anyone with a firearm. Never.

            But, Americans like guns. They like the idea of being able to own them. It's a Constitutional Right, and we enjoy exercising that right.
            Came across this blog while surfing, what the heck is going on then? it seems like WW3 has started......


            ....In 2005 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,694 gun deaths in the U.S: that's almost 90 deaths every day.

            Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War.

            Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.

            Nationwide for 2005, gun violence killed 3,027 American children and teens ages 19 and under, an increase of 6% from the nationwide 2002 total of 2,85 This means that an average of 8 young people are killed each day by guns in the U.S., a total that is the highest of any developed country in the World.

            Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
            In 1998 handguns murdered:

            373 people in Germany
            151 people in Canada
            57 people in Australia
            19 people in Japan
            54 people in England and Wales, and

            12,352 people in America.

            Whats the reason/s for the disproportionate number of death in US compared to other industrialized nations?:(

            Comment


            • #51
              ANAZC,

              Lies, damned lies, and statastics.

              Let me reverse this for you.

              What is the percentage of deaths per pistol owners in the country? Since the Americans own far more handguns than the all the countries listed combined, then the number of deaths as a percentage of handgun ownership would list the Americans as the lowest.

              Comment


              • #52
                Gary Kleck

                Kleck was an anti gun person till he did the research. http://www.guncite.com/gcwhoGK.html
                CADPIPE

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  ANAZC,

                  Lies, damned lies, and statastics.

                  Let me reverse this for you.

                  What is the percentage of deaths per pistol owners in the country? Since the Americans own far more handguns than the all the countries listed combined, then the number of deaths as a percentage of handgun ownership would list the Americans as the lowest.
                  Agreed, this should be looked at on a per capita basis. Of course England has less gun violence. The entire country could fit in my state a couple of times. So it's only obvious that we would have more shootings.

                  But as someone who has defended myself more than once, never fired but did pull the weapon. I am very pro - gun.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ANZAC View Post
                    Came across this blog while surfing, what the heck is going on then? it seems like WW3 has started......


                    ....In 2005 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,694 gun deaths in the U.S: that's almost 90 deaths every day.

                    Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War.

                    Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.

                    Nationwide for 2005, gun violence killed 3,027 American children and teens ages 19 and under, an increase of 6% from the nationwide 2002 total of 2,85 This means that an average of 8 young people are killed each day by guns in the U.S., a total that is the highest of any developed country in the World.

                    Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
                    In 1998 handguns murdered:

                    373 people in Germany
                    151 people in Canada
                    57 people in Australia
                    19 people in Japan
                    54 people in England and Wales, and

                    12,352 people in America.

                    Whats the reason/s for the disproportionate number of death in US compared to other industrialized nations?:(


                    There are 305-million people in this country. That's 3.9% by the statistics you quote. More than half of all gun-related deaths in the US are suicides. Nothing you've said here refudiates my statement. I've personally witnessed more than my share of violent death in 3 countries, but I've never seen an act of gun violence in the US. Nor has anyone in my family, my mother, my father, aunts, uncle's, nobody...with the exception of my 90-year old father-in-law who grew up in Chicago and witnessed a carload of Mob enforcers shoot out the windows of an Italian restaurant in 1929 with Tommyguns, and drive off!

                    I have seen the aftermath of some cocaine-war shoot-outs in Dade County, FL in the mid-1980s, but these were primarily between foreign nationals with illegally acquired firearms. In fact, most of the non-suicide gun violence in this country occurs in high-crime urban areas on Friday and Saturday night where drugs are bought and sold and in which the firearms involved usually turn out to be stolen.

                    To the rest of the world, the media and Hollywood do their best to portray America as a nation of gunslingers. And people in the rest of the world believe everything they read or see or hear because they want to believe the worst about this country. It makes them feel better to think Americans are killing each other in an orgy of gun violence. (And yet we still get our share of foreign tourists every year).

                    To be honest with you, most Americans, especially gun-owners and shooting enthusiasts don't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks. We like our guns and we like the fact that we are allowed to have them.
                    Last edited by Red Seven; 15 Feb 09,, 16:11.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Red Seven View Post
                      We like our guns and we like the fact that we are allowed to have them.
                      Good post, but small sticky point for the "ferriners":) : We aren't "allowed to have them"; rather, it's assumed we have them and the government is explicitly prohibited from touching them.

                      -dale

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ANZAC View Post
                        Came across this blog while surfing, what the heck is going on then? it seems like WW3 has started......
                        ...

                        Whats the reason/s for the disproportionate number of death in US compared to other industrialized nations?:(
                        ANZAC, I don't know where this data comes from, but as regards the US, it is completely incorrect.

                        There is simply no uniform, nationwide system of reporting that could generate valid numbers for groups such as "children under age 15," or "children and teens ages 19 and under." Those numbers simply do not exist.

                        Next, what do you mean by "homicide"? Again, there is no universally accepted definition or standardized reporting of such numbers in the US. As I have discussed at some length in another post, each state, and in some cases individual counties and cities all have their own reporting definitions and methods.

                        Without looking at each incident individually, the numbers have no meaning. One example: While "homicide" is usually used to invoke an image of vicious criminality, in some reporting districts, it also includes shootings of criminals by police officers. And, depending on how the data is collected and collated, the same shooting can show up several times in the "homicide" numbers, greatly inflating the total.

                        Finally, your Vietnam number. I don't know that anyone has ever calculated the number of US dead from Vietnam, but it doesn't take much reading to realize that the "official" number of 50-odd thousand is just that: an "Official Number," that was decided upon in some anonymous office, bearing no resemblance to the reality.

                        An example: If a bomber was hit over North Vietnam, and the entire crew died in an ensuing crash, were they counted as "Vietnam dead"? The answer is: It depends. It depends on where and when they crashed. Deaths taking place outside certain arbitrary boundaries of space and time are not reflected in the official total. A good book that raises this point is Pisor's The End of the Line, about the Battle of Khe Sanh.

                        Pisor has a section on the disparity between the "official" number of US dead, and how many men were actually killed. The base chaplain personally performed Last Rites over more men at the combat base than were officially killed in the entire operation, which took place over a wide area and involved many units with whom the chaplain never had contact. Extrapolate this sort of subterfuge across the entire theater and timespan of the war, and you see that the "official" number is grossly understated.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I would like to see numbers for these other countries as far as death by other weapons, such as knifes or whatever. If someone want to kill someone bad enough they don't need a gun.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Red Seven View Post
                            To the rest of the world, the media and Hollywood do their best to portray America as a nation of gunslingers. And people in the rest of the world believe everything they read or see or hear because they want to believe the worst about this country. It makes them feel better to think Americans are killing each other in an orgy of gun violence. (And yet we still get our share of foreign tourists every year).
                            We even get foreigners who come to shoot the guns that they can't back home. Yesterday at the range, I had new shooters from Korea, Ghana, New Zealand, India, Egypt, Cameroon, and Indonesia, most of whom were female college students visiting the range on a date for Valentine's Day.

                            As usually happens, several of them commented on how nice and regular everyone is at the range. They seem to come in expecting to find a sleazy place full of gang members and criminals, and instead wind up shooting next to a couple, or a family out for a day of fun. Some of the foreigners inquired about what is involved in buying and carrying a handgun.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by ANZAC View Post
                              Came across this blog while surfing, what the heck is going on then? it seems like WW3 has started......


                              ....In 2005 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,694 gun deaths in the U.S: that's almost 90 deaths every day.

                              Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War.

                              Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.

                              Nationwide for 2005, gun violence killed 3,027 American children and teens ages 19 and under, an increase of 6% from the nationwide 2002 total of 2,85 This means that an average of 8 young people are killed each day by guns in the U.S., a total that is the highest of any developed country in the World.

                              Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
                              In 1998 handguns murdered:

                              373 people in Germany
                              151 people in Canada
                              57 people in Australia
                              19 people in Japan
                              54 people in England and Wales, and

                              12,352 people in America.

                              Whats the reason/s for the disproportionate number of death in US compared to other industrialized nations?:(
                              More people die from medical malpractice every year than guns. Let's ban doctors.
                              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                                Those of you who have CCW and carry, or LEO but carry off duty, do you carry spare mags or speed loaders?

                                If you carry a hi-cap, do you carry spare mags?
                                No. If, when it comes time to draw my gun, I'm asking myself if 8 shots will be sufficient, I've got the kind of trouble that won't be resolved with one man and a handgun.

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