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  • #31
    In 04, while I was driving from Botswana to Joburg alone, upon reaching a 5-stars hotel basement car park with so-called in-house security, I was robbed at gunpoint (2 with Ak and another 2 with revolvers), I was lucky that they decided not to finish me off on the spot. All were taken away, wallet, watch, car, etc. And the worst was that I left my passport in the glove compartment.
    Even if I have carry my sidearms, don't think I am able to react or I would want to react with 2 guys on AK:))

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    • #32
      Good choice...:)

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      • #33
        As they say, sometimes good judgment is the better part of valor.

        This raises an interesting question though. As a former Soldier and Cop, I would NEVER consider relinquishing my weapon. So I was thinking what would I do in USGNs situation had I been armed. It would be highly likely that they would want my weapon as well.

        USGN, Would you say that since this was considered a safe location that you felt comfortable enough to let your guard down a little?

        So here is another question for those who carry. You have a responsibility to retain your weapon. How far do you go to do that? What would you do if suddenly met with potentialy overwhelming force?

        And one more question. Who here that does carry have recieved training in potential threat avoidance and identification, ie. don't go strutting through the 'hood at 2am in a tux swingin a gold watch chain, etc.? Who here that has actually practices it?
        Last edited by Blue; 24 Jan 09,, 05:31.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
          So here is another question for those who carry. You have a responsibility to retain your weapon. How far do you go to do that? What would you do if suddenly met with potentialy overwhelming force?

          And one more question. Who here that does carry have recieved training in potential threat avoidance and identification, ie. don't go strutting through the 'hood at 2am in a tux swingin a gold watch chain, etc.? Who here that has actually practices it?
          I manage to do a pretty good job of this, admittedly not perfect.

          I have also trained in retention, including use of a secondary weapon as a retention tool, and facing multiple attackers.

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          • #35
            I tend to be very alert and try to avoid situation that could raise problems. My wife says I'm paranoid, I say I'm careful. Some people get overconfident when they have a gun. I would rather never have to use it.

            I never had training in that sort of thing, guess I'm self taught.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by GraniteForge View Post
              I manage to do a pretty good job of this, admittedly not perfect.

              I have also trained in retention, including use of a secondary weapon as a retention tool, and facing multiple attackers.
              So what would be your theoretical coarse of action on USGNs scenario if armed?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by tuflehundon View Post
                I tend to be very alert and try to avoid situation that could raise problems. My wife says I'm paranoid, I say I'm careful. Some people get overconfident when they have a gun. I would rather never have to use it.

                I never had training in that sort of thing, guess I'm self taught.
                Your lucky. Some folks have to spend a lot of money to get what just makes sense to others.

                What do you think you would you do in USGNs case?

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                • #38
                  If you are faced with overwhelming odds, as usgn obviously was, and armed as he wasn't, in a foreign country, you have to follow your gut feeling.

                  Four assailants are hard enough to deal with when unarmed, but with the weaponry that usgn mentioned an armed aggressive self defence will end in tears and blood being shed and death.

                  If you really wanted to make a statement, I'd advise a hand grenade.

                  usgn may have lost all his stuff, but he is here today.

                  Tony
                  Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                    So what would be your theoretical coarse of action on USGNs scenario if armed?
                    His situation strikes me as having a low probability for a win. And sometimes you don't win, but of course you can't ever think that; you have to keep fighting until the end.

                    So, that being said, when I am armed and enter a parking structure or similar arrangement, (of if I'm driving through unfamiliar woods at night, etc.), I usually have my primary pistol in my hand. Being in a car in this scenario is tough. If you can use the car to run them down, great. But its more likely that you are in a restricted space and can't manouver the car to advantage, which is why they chose that place to jack you. You usually want to shoot the worst threat (AKs) first, but you also want to shoot the closer guy first. If the closer guy is one of the AK guys, good, let a little fresh air into his organs, then move to the next target. Drive away if you can, and only get out of the car as a last resort, but you might have to.

                    You basically have to hit them with the most violent assault you are capable of, hoping to make them pause in their own assault, and giving you more time to damage them. Put them all down if you can, and make sure they are done, then get help. A high end hospitality operation will probably want to conceal the assault, and will likely offer you substantial incentives to keep the story as private as possible. Drive a hard deal. If their security was doing the job, you wouldn't have been assaulted. Its likely, in fact, that local security allowed the attack to take place.

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                    • #40
                      I think that we are making the mistake of them having had the sort of training that some of us have enjoyed, they are common thieves, out to get what they can with as little effort as possible, with as little danger to themselves as possible, their choice of hitting a tourist is an obvious confirmation of this, the weapons are tools as a carpenter uses a hammer, them weapons are dangerous, the thugs, are not a cohesive educated trained team, willing to use them, on the other hand they could be brothers who started off slaughtering their neighbours with machetes, who knows.

                      Tony
                      Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by toemag View Post
                        I think that we are making the mistake of them having had the sort of training that some of us have enjoyed, they are common thieves, out to get what they can with as little effort as possible, with as little danger to themselves as possible, their choice of hitting a tourist is an obvious confirmation of this, the weapons are tools as a carpenter uses a hammer, them weapons are dangerous, the thugs, are not a cohesive educated trained team, willing to use them, on the other hand they could be brothers who started off slaughtering their neighbours with machetes, who knows.

                        Tony
                        I always assume that my enemies are smarter, better trained, better equipped, stronger, healthier, and better rested than I am, and that there are more of them out there than I see. And I assume that they are much more experienced than me.
                        Last edited by GraniteForge; 24 Jan 09,, 07:15.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by toemag View Post
                          If you are faced with overwhelming odds, as usgn obviously was, and armed as he wasn't, in a foreign country, you have to follow your gut feeling.

                          usgn may have lost all his stuff, but he is here today.

                          Tony
                          I agree. I'm not trying to armchair quarterback his move. I think he was lucky to survive that. I look forward to getting his opinion on what he might have done IF he had been armed. There are variables that could be added to this that could change ones course of action, theoretically of course.

                          For example, your armed/unarmed and family members are present. Although you comply with the theft, they elevate the situation to kidnapping your young son/daughter.

                          I think its good to run scenarios like this through your head often to help with reaction if ever the situation arises.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                            I agree. I'm not trying to armchair quarterback his move. I think he was lucky to survive that. I look forward to getting his opinion on what he might have done IF he had been armed. There are variables that could be added to this that could change ones course of action, theoretically of course.

                            For example, your armed/unarmed and family members are present. Although you comply with the theft, they elevate the situation to kidnapping your young son/daughter.

                            I think its good to run scenarios like this through your head often to help with reaction if ever the situation arises.
                            This is where you and I must disagree. I find running through scenarios to be tedious at best, and of no practical value. When the fight's on, I just want to let it flow. Its like taking a ride on a motorcycle: just pick a direction and head out, roll with whatever happens from there.

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                            • #44
                              Well, when I say often, I don't mean to over analyze to the point of tedious or redundant. Like reloading drills, weapon presentation, instinctive shooting. That sort of thing.

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                              • #45
                                Got to agreed that I actually let my guard down while driving into the basement carpark since there were rent-a-cops stationed at the entrance plus the fatigue of long driving.:( Didn't really look at the surrounding before stepping out of my car) all I was thinking was to have a pint of draught beer and a hot shower:)).
                                By the way, I was basically unarmed as Botswana have pretty strict arms control. And in Joburg according to the local, every 3 mins there is a carjack somewhere and every 5 mins a cop get shot at

                                Frankly speaking, even if I am armed, don't think I would react unnecessary, unless my family is with me. Basically depends on individual's judgement in that particular situation. Having 2 xAK pointing at your face wasn't that good a feeling...
                                Last edited by usgn; 24 Jan 09,, 07:46.

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