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Will Government Grow or Remain the Same Size?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    Yes. Wars tend to make government bigger.
    Governments tend to make government bigger.

    As a percent of GDP, gov't spending in the US 1900 to date.
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    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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    • #32
      "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."

      -- Civilization 4, narrated by Leonard Nimoy
      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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      • #33
        gunnut,

        i do recall that it unlocks quite the powerful mid-game civic...
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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        • #34
          Originally posted by astralis View Post
          gunnut,

          i do recall that it unlocks quite the powerful mid-game civic...
          Yes it does. Bureaucracy is great if you're restricted to just a few cities as it doubles the output of the capital. But on a large map and many cities, the corruption is out of hand and negates its usefulness.

          However, I do believe it leads to the crossbowman or the longbowman.
          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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          • #35
            given the size of our defense budget compared to 1910 i wonder how much of that spending is because we are the world power and how much is because a 20th century infrsstructure is even expensive in the 21st century? Social security since it is in the black the next 30 yrs sure cant be the reason can it?
            Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
            ~Ronald Reagan

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            • #36
              Originally posted by gunnut View Post
              "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."

              -- Civilization 4, narrated by Leonard Nimoy
              I thought it was Oscar Wilde, thanks for enlightening me ;)
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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              • #37
                Let me point out a few basics... People in jobs pay tax, they also add to GDP as they have more to spend - and this leads to more jobs: a beneficial circle, thus the more people in jobs the better for all in general. However if the jobs they are employed in are Government jobs, ie they payed directly or indirectly by the Government then the Government makes a net loss... suppose you have Joe on a Government employment scheme earning X but doing nothing productive then the total tax he pays is only a percentage of X. It is cheaper not to have such employment programmes unless they are profitable. Furthermore who pays for the entire 'public sector'? The private businesses and the jobs they create! They are more tax beneficient than any Government job as they only pay tax and cost the Government nothing. Increasing the State job sector can ONLY work short term and so far until the private sector becomes unable to support it, then the lot collapses.

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                • #38
                  Your theory proposes that government jobs do not create anything. This is not necessarily the case, and entirely depends on the job the person does.

                  And it of course does not take nations into account who do the sensible thing and nationalize certain key industries to curb the influence of capitalists within their economy.

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                  • #39
                    People who are working at productive jobs presumably create wealth regardless of who the employer is.

                    When one asks "who will pay for it?" as it regards government jobs one assumes that the only truly wealth producing jobs must be in the private sector.

                    Really it is putting the cart before the horse to think that way.

                    Wealth is the stuff that money buys not the other way around.

                    Money is merely a representation of wealth, not the wealth itself.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by editec View Post
                      People who are working at productive jobs presumably create wealth regardless of who the employer is.
                      Give me an example of government creating wealth.
                      "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by highsea View Post
                        Give me an example of government creating wealth.
                        The congressional retirement plan.:insane:

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                          The congressional retirement plan.:insane:
                          Lol. Wealth for government workers....

                          ...Taken at gunpoint from the private sector.

                          Government is an excellent consumer of capital.

                          I admittedly have a pretty narrow definition of generating wealth. It only includes the ~8% of the US population that work in manufacturing, plus farming, mining, timber, and other exploiting of natural resources.

                          Everything else lands into the "overhead" category in my book.
                          "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                          • #43
                            Military R&D,albeit indirectly and with a delay of several years or decades.

                            But,and that's the big ''but'',the military IS the most efficient organization known to man.But it's wholly unsuitable for the bulk of the society on the long run(which may be only as long as one generation).The food chain requires the sheeps outnumber both the wolves and the sheepdogs.
                            Those who know don't speak
                            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                            • #44
                              highsea,

                              Give me an example of government creating wealth.
                              several right off the top of my head.

                              Interstate Highway system

                              power grid, such as Hoover Dam

                              space technologies being adapted for commercial use

                              medical discoveries by the CDC and NIH

                              the Internet
                              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                highsea,



                                several right off the top of my head.

                                Interstate Highway system (national defense)

                                power grid, such as Hoover Dam

                                space technologies being adapted for commercial use (national defense)

                                medical discoveries by the CDC and NIH

                                the Internet (national defense)
                                The government didn't set out to build the interstate, the internet, and space exploration for the benefit of mankind. They were part of the war effort against the Soviet Union. It was NOT the government that found an everyday use for these things.
                                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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